Some People (Guitarists) Never Learn

[Pako]

LOL, I just love the title.....

 

[RustyNails]

Here's some suggestions for the guitarist, even though he probably won't listen to them:

1) Turn down the GAIN/DRIVE/DISTORTION on his fuzz or overdrive pedal. Sure it's fun to play solo with the gain/drive/distortion cranked up, but it usually doesn't work in a band situation, especially for rhythm playing. Dialing back the distortion will make the sound tighter and cut through better.

2) Turn down the bass on the guitar amp. Less muddiness and flubbiness. Again, a 'tighter' sound that will cut through better in a band context.

3) Up the MIDS to cut through. Let the bass handle the bass frequencies. The "modern metal" sound is very mid-scooped, that's probably what he's trying to emulate with his settings.

4) Consider another guitar. High-output pickups really aren't a good match with hollowbody guitars. A solidbody guitar is bound to sound better (and not feedback) especially when downtuned. There are probably dozens of used Ibanez' and Jacksons available used at your local GC store.

Everything you said here is what I have told him almost verbatim. As we speak I'm slowly convincing him he needs a different guitar at the very least. I said try a Les Paul, he says he wants to be "different". So I said any solidbody guitar with humbucking pickups from a well known guitar company that is $400+ new will be an improvement. Start there. (Not that there aren't any good guitars under $400).

 

[tjontheroad]

Everything you said here is what I have told him almost verbatim. As we speak I'm slowly convincing him he needs a different guitar at the very least. I said try a Les Paul, he says he wants to be "different". So I said any solidbody guitar with humbucking pickups from a well known guitar company that is $400+ new will be an improvement. Start there. (Not that there aren't any good guitars under $400).

Have him look at a used Reverend. Good quality cheap.

 

[placedesjardins]

So here's the issue: the guitarist in my band is stubborn as a mule when it comes to tone. He makes pretty bad choices when it comes to guitar choice, pedal choice, amp choice, tuning choice, etc. then wonders why his guitar sounds muddy.

He plays a semi-hollow body guitar from some unknown company that he bought for like $200 that already sounds really muddy and bassy with very hot pickups, then he runs whichever fuzz pedal he bought that week because he wasn't happy with the previous one (he thinks tone comes from pedals) then he runs that into a bunch of other pedals he barely uses into a cheap amp half stack that even the clean tone sounds muddy on.

Then he starts every practice by spending about an hour trying to reduce the feedback and make his guitar sound less muddy.

When I tell him it sounds muddy and feeds back because it's a semihollow guitar with too hot pickups and way too high gain fuzz into a crap amp at a drop C tuning and that doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results is the definition of insanity he takes it personally and argues with me by saying he likes his tone deep and fuzzy.

I try to tell him he doesn't need that much low end because, hello, I'm over here playing bass. I've got the low end covered, he should focus on the mids and highs if he wants to be heard in the mix.

Then when I bring over my strat and plug it straight into my 5w all tube Blackheart Little Giant amp he says wow that sounds great, why can't I get my guitar to sound that good? I just roll my eyes. Then later I suggest trying a guitar with single coil pickups or at least something less hot, he says he doesn't like single coils.

I don't know what to do with this guy. It's like somebody struggling to build IKEA furniture without the instructions and I'm over here waving the instructions like, it would be much more efficient if you just follow these. I'm trying to help!

Well, if he's trying to emulate a particular guitarist's tone, then, maybe he should talk to other guitarists who are better than him (because he's not going to listen to a bassist or drummer). There are guitarists who play rock with a semi-hollow body guitar, but I don't know what tone he is trying to achieve, especially with drop tuning.
So, if he wants to sound like, maybe, Noel Gallagher (because he's playing a semi-hollow body), he needs to go to 10 on treble with his tone knob and use the rear humbucker. Going with a split setting or neck humbucker with get it muddy, or softer if there's no distortion.

 

[RustyNails]

Well, if he's trying to emulate a particular guitarist's tone, then, maybe he should talk to other guitarists who are better than him (because he's not going to listen to a bassist or drummer). There are guitarists who play rock with a semi-hollow body guitar, but I don't know what tone he is trying to achieve, especially with drop tuning.
So, if he wants to sound like, maybe, Noel Gallagher (because he's playing a semi-hollow body), he needs to go to 10 on treble with his tone knob and use the rear humbucker. Going with a split setting or neck humbucker with get it muddy, or softer if there's no distortion.

He's looking for the ever elusive unique tone that nobody's ever used before. I tell him it either doesn't exist or its never been used before for a reason. Mainly that it sounds like crap.

 

[CGremlin]

The Tolkieniac in me always reads that as Uruk-hai of little minds.

Three Tones for the guitarist through his Twin
Seven for the bassist with his SVT of power
Nine for groupies seeking extramarital sin
One for the drummer, as behind the set he cowers
In the Land of Cover Bands, where the pay is in gin
One Tone to rule them all, One Tone to find them
One Tone to bring them all and in the cacophony bind them...

 

[placedesjardins]

He's looking for the ever elusive unique tone that nobody's ever used before. I tell him it either doesn't exist or its never been used before for a reason. Mainly that it sounds like crap.

Oh. What kind of music does your band play?

 

[JaredBT]

You could be like us and have to deal with: too loud (always), is never wrong, can't hear outta one ear, insists on multi solos in every tune, takes up way too much room every time he sets up, talks about the money out loud in the middle of the show, and the rest of the band doesn't know how to approach him cuz they're afraid to have to replace him. Most folks in here are going to tell you to run for the hills... the reason for my rant is to let you know you're not alone and it's tuff to deal with...

 

[RustyNails]

You could be like us and have to deal with: too loud (always), is never wrong, can't hear outta one ear, insists on multi solos in every tune, takes up way too much room every time he sets up, talks about the money out loud in the middle of the show, and the rest of the band doesn't know how to approach him cuz they're afraid to have to replace him. Most folks in here are going to tell you to run for the hills... the reason for my rant is to let you know you're not alone and it's tuff to deal with...

Except for talking about money this is spot on.

 

[VinnyIuspa]

I'd find another guy. I don't know about you, but between work and the rest of life there is such precious little time left to spend playing music. If the guy sounds like crap and isn't rectifying it, get him out of there! He clearly doesn't have the proper state of mind for playing in a successful band. And by success I mean succeeding in sounding good and having fun!

 

[bearfoot]

Nope it's not about them. It's the thin and too shoddy design of the neck, if you flex it the strings will get stuck in the nut. Just by bending the notes It's the only guitar with a hardtail bridge that acts like a poorly set up floating tremolo bridge that goes out of tune regularly by whamming it. Except that on a SG, you don't whammy anything, it goes south just by playing cause the wood and dimensions of it all are poorly carried out. If the just made it a tad thicker all around and went for different wood with more density it would stay in tune, as some other copy manufacturers have succeded in doing (LTD, ESP etc).

You can hear it by bending the high e-string. Just bend it. Don't play it. Play the low e-string instead WHILE bending the high e-string. You'll hear the low e go up and down in pitch. All of the wood flexes. NOW BACK OT, since this SG thing won't ever never help him either. Period.

The topic was a dead horse by pg. 2. I no longer have my SG, but it stayed in tune fine, and I played it hard, on the road, in late summer in the South. I'll test your dubious claim in a guitar shop some time.
If it is true, some graphite in the nut grooves, like you do with an URB, would keep the strings from sticking.

 

[Honch]

If you tune down, the more you tune down the longer scale it needs. So most Gibs are out of the soup. THey are at 24,5 scale or something. Fender scale at 25 proves much better and not muddying up the tone. Nuff of that. There are OTHER brands though that keeps a 25 inch scale.

 

[Kragnorak]

I said try a Les Paul, he says he wants to be "different".

"The best way to be different is to be better" - Mike Muir

 

[fdeck]

I disagree. This is actually part of the problem. He wants his "bedroom tone" when he is in a band setting, without changing anything.

Those of that listen know full well that the awesome tone we get in our bedroom is not the same tone needed in a band setting. EQ is everything in this conversation, and you MUST EQ for every room and instrumentation.

The EQ used in a trio is different than the EQ needed for a 5 pc with 2 guitars, which is different than a 5pc with 1 guitar and a keyboard. This applies to all instruments, not just guitar and bass.

"Use you ears" is the remedy that most of us tout. However, this is more of a scientific issue. Knowing the needed frequency range of your instrument is very important. It is the difference between mud and clarity.

I agree in principle, that a guitarist has to adjust their settings for the situation at hand. But they have to develop that skill, to where they don't have to spend an hour of the band's time every time they encounter a new acoustic environment. What's going to happen at gigs?

So, I'm understanding if we're talking about a beginner here. The seasoned guitarists I've worked with can get it right within the first few bars of the first tune, even when they don't have fancy gear. That's why I call it part of knowing how to play.

 

[LanEvo]

The bottom line is he's used to playing solo at bedroom volumes. Super saturated sounds good to him. In a band situation, you need a much drier tone. It's as simple as that ... but it takes some people a long time to figure it out.

See if you can find some isolated guitar tracks on YouTube. It's sometimes surprising how different the guitars sound solo vs. "in the mix." Hopefully, that will get through to him.

 

[nashvillebill]

Is his guitar a true hollowbody, or a semi-hollowbody, which is what I think your first post said? Big difference! My semi-hollowbody doesn't feed back or turn into mud in a band setting, whereas my true hollowbodies are massive feedback at higher volumes.

It's the guy's tuning, pedals, and amp settings.

 

[Honch]

It's the guy. You can ask him very politely and as matte of factly what he would think of if all the rest of the band started to act like that, during rehearsals on their respective instruments....the drummer heading for his wrench key, and starts to swap skins out. Keyboard player starting to re-program his synth patches and go "I may have to get another synth..." and so on. He can continute doing that JUST because no one else does. He's wasting everybody elses time. I think he would find it a nuisance, but doesn't see that when it comes from himself.

The "Bara Du Trivs" expression in Swedish is maybe not Available in english. Its accents on the word "you". "Whatever floats your boat" isn't quite nailing it. It's a adage of some sorts, when you elaborate on it it's supposed to mean "Oh hell yeah, it matters only that YOU should be comfortable and cosy, and have it your way, to please you, but no one else".

 

[bearfoot]

My 1971 SG Special is my favourite out of all the guitars I have owned and played. I am not particularly gentle with bends and vibrato and have never heard the floating bridge effect you speak of. (I am very familiar with it because I own an early 60s guitar with one that is dreadful, I have to string it up so the trem is inoperable to be able to play it.)

Just an update of the derailment, though I haven't played an SG this weekend, I researched the problem and Honch is quite right. Tons of SG players have experienced this, and even Les himself knew the neck was wobbly.
If you go to a heavier gauge string, you are very likely to experience this, especially with the G string.
Some graphite in the nut slots and possibly over the saddles are known fixes.
I probably didn't notice because, being on the road in hot climates, I was re-tuning at least once/set and attributed it to other factors.
LP players occasionally experience it as well, but for the SG its a common situation.

Sorry to get defensive, Honch. : )

 

[RustyNails]

I had an SG once. Sounded great, felt even better, wouldn't stay in tune. It was an Epiphone, though. A used one I found at a pawn shop for $200. What happened to that guitar? A drunken practice session with my band led to hijinks and the strap coming off the guitar and landing on the hard tile floor and snapping the neck in half. One day I will get another.