Some thoughts on the ESP LTD Stream 1005

[funkymonk13]

My G&L Tribute is made in Indonesia and it's terrific in terms of quality.

Echoing Snakeman1066 above, Just because something is made in Indonesia doesn't make it a bad product. One thing you should know is that culturally speaking, Indonesian craftsmen are very adept at woodcrafting. In terms of being an offshore guitar/bass manufacturer, it's not that they're NOT capable of making high quality instruments, it's the people at the top in the corporate offices here in the US who dictate the level of detail, quality control, quality of materials and parts, not the people tasked with putting them together. How "budget" an instrument is, plays or feels is determined by how much the companies want to put into producing that particular model. If given the opportunity and money was no object, I have no doubt the workers can produce guitars and basses that are at least equal in quality to those produced here. I guess what I'm saying is it depends on the standards set by each manufacturer. G&L Tributes, LTD and Lakland Skylines I'm guessing have higher qc standards set for them.
Like Snakeman 1066 above, I also had an LTD Stream 204 made in Indonesia. It was very well made, absolutely no problems with the quality - only reason why I sold it, ergonomically the shape design didn't work for me although I thought it looked pretty darn cool.
A good number of LTD basses aren't cheap, while they do have a few budget models, a good number of their options are more middle level to higher quality and specs and priced accordingly. The Japanese versions of the Stream model, sold under the ESP brand are even more expensive.

This was my Stream 204
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I’ve always thought this. Bad/Inconsistent quality from Asian countries really has to do with the companies wanting to keep costs low in their budget lines. You can train people in Indonesia or China to make better quality/consistent instruments than anything coming out of the US, and it would still be cheaper because of the difference in labor costs.

it’s that old joke about the difference between US and MIM fenders being that one is made by Mexicans south of the border and the other by Mexicans north of the border.

 

[Maxdusty]

I’ve always thought this. Bad/Inconsistent quality from Asian countries really has to do with the companies wanting to keep costs low in their budget lines. You can train people in Indonesia or China to make better quality/consistent instruments than anything coming out of the US, and it would still be cheaper because of the difference in labor costs.

it’s that old joke about the difference between US and MIM fenders being that one is made by Mexicans south of the border and the other by Mexicans north of the border.

I think Squier is now producing both their cheapest (Affinities) and best (CV) models in Indonesia, previously China. VM now discontinued, I believe were mostly made in Indonesia too. Yes, Squier is Fender's overall budget line, but there's a difference in quality (and price) between an Affinity and a CV.
Most likely the Affinity and CV basses are made in the same factory and I've often wondered, maybe even the same workers. Affinities made on a Monday, CVs on Fridays. lol
I owned one of the recent Indonesian CV models, a Squier CV Mustang and thought it was very well made, finish work was great compared to a Squier Affinity Jazz bass I was checking out at the time.
A Squier will never have better parts or material than a US-made Fender and perhaps less attention to finish work and qc because Fender designed and planned it that way. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they allowed the Squier factory to use higher quality parts and material and also allowed the workers more time to work on the parts, to do a more thorough finish work and quality control. I would almost bet if allowed to use the same materials, parts, same time constraints and design (eg. rolled fretboard), there would be little to no difference between a US Fender and one made in Indonesia.
In terms of LTD, their manufacturing in Indonesia is not really their budget line in the same way as Squier is to Fender - one of the big differences between the Indonesian versions and the Japanese models.....the Japanese ones are mostly hand made, the Indonesian versions are made by machines.

 

[soundsupport1]

Doesn't Lakland at least claim to do a final round of QC in the States prior to selling their instruments? My bandmate once played a MIK Lakland and I liked it a lot, but he got rid of it for a MIA Stingray.

They do. Used to be that they installed the electronics in the Chicago as well; now that's done in Indonesia too.
If you order a fretless Skyline (kind of a 'secret menu' option on the Skylines!) , the necks are installed in the Chicago shop.

Every week Lakland sends out an email to previous customers with a list of B-stock Skylines they have for sale - almost always small blemishes in the finish. Sometimes they'll cannibalise a couple of basses to make one good one and put it up as B-stock as well. (I've seen a couple where the body is natural and the headstock is black - no Lakland in the range has that color combo). There's usually about 7 basses on the list, but some of them can be there for quite a while before selling, so I'd guess out of every quarterly production run only 4 or so aren't up to spec.

My Darryl Jones signature is one of the final production run from the Korean factory and hasn't needed anything - not even a truss rod adjustment - in 14 years.

The 55-02 fretless is Indonesian and apart from one control knob having been pushed on too hard and split at the bottom, I can't tell any difference in build quality.

Peace,
SoundSupport

 

[edthebass]

I’ve owned a Ibanez sr premium since the first iteration and still I’m amazed at the quality of craftsmanship and high end materials that make up this bass. I picked up the LTD b1005ms a few months ago (also Indonesian made) and that bass is once again excellently built and has even more impressive appointments! I applaud modern global manufacturing for giving us such quality at such a good price. It’s silly and even prejudice to knock something for where it’s made, unless it’s for reasons other than the final product aka living wages for workers, sustainable materials/manufacturing and so forth.

Quick thought on Korea vs Indonesia. A couple of the more recent higher end models to come of Korea are the Spector Dimension and Ethos basses which compare at least wood/electronic wise to the higher end Ibanez/Ltd stuff. Those are going for around $2K whereas the Indonesian stuff is like $1500. 25% difference in price. I don’t actually know the real reason but it probably is at least somewhat related to the cost of manufacture.

Final opine on the topic: it is weird to me that these brands of instruments are ultimately being created in the same factory side by side just spec’ed out to how the brand wants it and then slapped with a label on the headstock. Kinda feels like everything you’re buying is a knock off version of the real thing. But I know it’s been done that way for a long time and obviously, it comes down to money, like practically everything. Again, can’t deny the bang for the buck.

 

[DonaldR]

Final opine on the topic: it is weird to me that these brands of instruments are ultimately being created in the same factory side by side just spec’ed out to how the brand wants it and then slapped with a label on the headstock. Kinda feels like everything you’re buying is a knock off version of the real thing. But I know it’s been done that way for a long time and obviously, it comes down to money, like practically everything. Again, can’t deny the bang for the buck.

I see it no different than a factory building seats for Cadillac and Chevrolet.

 

[BigCactus]

It has been my experience in the last few years that the stuff being built in Indonesia now is roughly equivalent to the stuff being built in Korea 10 or so years ago, and that the stuff being built in Korea now is near-Japanese level of quality. As many people have highlighted, has nothing to do with nationality/skill and everything to do with what companies will pay for at that factory.

that said, I considered an LTD Stream for a while myself after seeing Tundra from Finntroll playing one, but $1300 new for "ooh it looks cool" is too steep. I know they're likely just slapping EMGs and a "pretty good" preamp in there. if the LTD is 1300, it's probably worth it to consider the E-II tier instead.

Anecdotally, the best-feeling and -sounding guitar I've ever picked up and played was not American-made, Japanese-made, or even Korean-made, but an Indonesian Jackson SLATHXMG. To be fair, I've never tried the Japanese spiritual ancestor of this guitar (so if anyone wants to sell me one, holler at me), but for what I want, it simply cannot be beat.
My Indo-made G&L Tribute SB-2, much as I try to move on from it, just keeps jumping out of the case and going to rehearsal. Indonesia is producing fantastic stuff for those who like slim necks, simple features, and good-enough-to-last hardware.

maybe if cheap-ass guitar companies keep trying to move their production to cut costs, we can keep a chain going of nations getting better labor practices

 

[BigCactus]

I see it no different than a factory building seats for Cadillac and Chevrolet.

we would all do well to work on mentally separating ourselves from the cruel capitalist mistress that is "brand loyalty", and consider that we and our parents and their parents have all been getting duped by it for a long, long time