Something I don't understand.

[Nev375]

You mean that you can get the same low frequencies out of a 2" tweeter?

You would need a 2" subwoofer. Those are rare!

But if you had a hundred or so....

 

[Mushroo]

Speaker size is just one ingredient in the delicious stew that is a good-sounding speaker cabinet.

You can argue about "which chili pepper is hottest" but the spiciness of the finished stew depends on how all of the ingredients in the recipe come together.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

You mean that you can get the same low frequencies out of a 2" tweeter?

Or even smaller. You can still hear the basslines when you're listening to music through earphones or earbuds. The frequency is a matter of how fast or slow the speaker is vibrating, not how small or big it it is.

(Insert "That's what she said" joke here.)

Another great point to disprove your thoughts.

Just how do you explain getting low freq response when listening to earphones/earbuds ?

 

[Drewski9]

Another great point to disprove your thoughts.

Just how do you explain getting low freq response when listening to earphones/earbuds ?

This all becomes an issue of design trade-offs, a 2" speaker that can produce 20 hz will not produce 7 Khz very well and vice versa, and it would take alot of them to have the same surface area as an 18" (move the same amount of air.. This is why you can have a 10" sub and a 10" guitar speaker. They do different things well. Cabinet design is another EQUAL component. Match the right speakers with the right cabinet and they work together. You cannot isolate a component and generalize. The room you are in is the final factor, if your standing in an 80 hz null (standing wave) then certain notes will dissapeer from the room removing the fundamental. It all works together.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

You mean that you can get the same low frequencies out of a 2" tweeter?

One could get the same low frequency response from a 2" driver as an 18. They do exist. But the number of them required to have the same displacement as larger drivers makes it a cost prohibitive route.

 

[will33]

It seems one the most repeated misconceptions in this thread is the "speaker area" thing.

It's about the volume of air it can displace when it moves.....area x distance traveled. A smaller cone that can travel far can displace a greater volume of air than a larger cone that can't travel very far.


The next is dispersion, the thing that is directly tied to cone diameter.

All frequencies don't radiate at the same angle from every speaker. The larger the cone, the lower in frequency it starts to beam. That's the point where mids and highs aren't spread out wide anymore, they start getting focused into a tighter and tighter beam coming off of the cone. That makes the hotspot you get when standing centered on the rig and more dull and muddier sound as you move off to one side.


Some simple explanations to clear up a couple things.......learned it right here on talkbass.

 

[Korladis]

One could get the same low frequency response from a 2" driver as an 18. They do exist. But the number of them required to have the same displacement as larger drivers makes it a cost prohibitive route.

Right, as I understand it, a 2" driver can get the same low frequency response as an 18", but likely displaces so much less air that for low frequencies, there's no practical reason to use 2" drivers instead of an 18".

 

[JimmyM]

You know, none of these arguments against the idea that speaker size doesn't matter when it comes to frequency response don't even address the fact that you can look up speakers of any size on any website that sells them, and you can look at the frequency responses and see that they all have different frequency responses. That renders any argument against it null and void.

 

[Sam Evans]

You know, none of these arguments against the idea that speaker size doesn't matter when it comes to frequency response don't even address the fact ....

Hang on - I need to diagram this sentence before I can tell if we disagree ...

 

[JimmyM]

Would you like a flowchart?



I can see why you said that...not the most coherent sentence I've ever written.

 

[madmachinist]

let's just pretend that in our Bass guitar-kitchen , the laws
of physics cease to exist....
and we have amplification courtesy of the man who sold
jack his beanstalk beans.....

15-18" speakers can have depth and lowend extension,
but may not fare well in a band situation, or stand out among
distorted guitars and drums . they can quickly get mushy,
and become unintelligible inthe mix... = fartbass city.

i've heard a few 2 x 15" (G-K , Peavey) that could be punchy,
but they were in way undersized cabs and had other issues.

10" speakers have the best qualities for most bass guitar
amplification that i've encountered. 4 x eminence delta 10's
in a solid cab with/without a tweeter , driven by a good
tube preamp and QSC leadsled amp are awesome punchy.
add a 15" 300w bass cab , and i can use the other side of the 1700 watt amp, but it can't be heard in the mix, and just makes the rest of the instruments harder to
hear in the monitors and competes with the PA , .IME

didn't Stanley C. use a hemispherical plastic speaker dome config. with like, 30 , 4" bullfrog midbass speakers in an array.
coupled to an CV earthquake 18" folded cabinet?

never heard it in person, but hey... if Stanley used it,
i'd check it out.

 

[JimmyM]

let's just pretend that in our Bass guitar-kitchen , the laws
of physics cease to exist....
and we have amplification courtesy of the man who sold
jack his beanstalk beans.....

15-18" speakers can have depth and lowend extension,
but may not fare well in a band situation, or stand out among
distorted guitars and drums . they can quickly get mushy,
and become unintelligible inthe mix... = fartbass city.

Some will. And some won't. Nobody who's ever heard my B-15 rig has ever said it was unintelligible in a mix.

i've heard a few 2 x 15" (G-K , Peavey) that could be punchy,
but they were in way undersized cabs and had other issues.

So they all sound like that? I don't think so.

10" speakers have the best qualities for most bass guitar
amplification that i've encountered. 4 x eminence delta 10's
in a solid cab with/without a tweeter , driven by a good
tube preamp and QSC leadsled amp are awesome punchy.
add a 15" 300w bass cab , and i can use the other side of the 1700 watt amp, but it can't be heard in the mix, and just makes the rest of the instruments harder to
hear in the monitors and competes with the PA , .IME

A 115 mixed with a 410 sucks more often than it doesn't just as a general rule. But I could easily find you cabs using 10"s that are as mushy and fart out just as easily as any 215 cab. And that's the big flaw people don't seem to be wrapping their heads around...for every cab using speakers of a given size that you say works for you, I can find you one that doesn't, thus defeating the argument that speaker size is related to frequency response.

didn't Stanley C. use a hemispherical plastic speaker dome config. with like, 30 , 4" bullfrog midbass speakers in an array.
coupled to an CV earthquake 18" folded cabinet?

never heard it in person, but hey... if Stanley used it,
i'd check it out.

Stanley doesn't use it anymore, but I vaguely remember something about it.

 

[CarlosRoberto5]

I hate to sound ignorant here, but what two cab combinations generally sound the best? It seems like many here on TB strongly dislike the 4x10 and 1x15 combination.
Additionally (to whoever answers this question), could you explain why this combination, generally speaking, of course, results in better tonal quality than the aforementioned combination?

 

[JHAz]

I hate to sound ignorant here, but what two cab combinations generally sound the best? It seems like many here on TB strongly dislike the 4x10 and 1x15 combination.
Additionally (to whoever answers this question), could you explain why this combination, generally speaking, of course, results in better tonal quality than the aforementioned combination?

I've only been here a couple of weeks, and I actually already know "the answer" to this: Two cabinets that are the same always works. Pairing different sized (or otherwiseifferent) despeakers is a crapshoot. You certainly can't say any 115 will sound great or awful with any 210, for example. Depends on the individual speakers.

One thing that speakers do is change the relative phase of parts of the signal they receive. What this means when you pair up different spekakers is that if one speaker is getting close to 180 degrees out of phase with the differently-sized speaker at a particular frequency, the two will cancel each other out (in some locations - - relative phase between 2 signals coming from different locations changes with angle). But in my limited understanding, the source of problems with speaker mix-n-matching is that the different relative phases may cause oddness in the sound, and it may be that from up close you don't hear the oddness but your audience does.

There also is a question of whether the speakers' inherently different frequency responses play nicely together, which can be just a tiny bit subjective . . .

 

[RickenBoogie]

The easiest way to describe the problem of the 410/15 pairing is this. The "average" 4x10 is capable of producing a large amount of volume, SPL, and generally, can handle a decent amount of power. The "average" 1x15 is normally capable of much less volume, SPL, than the 410, as well as being more limited in power handling. Thus, when combined, the 15 reaches it's maximum output long before the 410 will, so your amp has to stop at the 15's limit, while the 410 still has more to give. That alone is reason enough, but there's more I won't go into, (under qualified).
Otoh, 2 identical cabs, each with the same capabilities, are evenly matched, and provide "coupling" when paired. This is why matching cabs ALWAYS work, and mixed cabs have mixed results. And even when 2 mis-matched cabs do work out, they're still not as good as 2 of the same. Hope that helps.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

I've only been here a couple of weeks, and I actually already know "the answer" to this: Two cabinets that are the same always works. Pairing different sized (or otherwiseifferent) despeakers is a crapshoot. You certainly can't say any 115 will sound great or awful with any 210, for example. Depends on the individual speakers.

You've learned in two weeks what many with 20 plus years of playing experience haven't yet figured out. Well done.

 

[rpsands]

everyone knows 15s have slower transient response than 10s guys

</troll>

 

[u84six]

Personally I find that the cone size generally makes up the characteristics of the sound itself, not how deep or loud the subwoofer gets. The size will definitely effect the magnets performance for starting and stopping the cone. This causes all different types of effects depending on what's going through it.

Really, it comes down to what sounds good to you. Just because all the 15" you've heard sound better than all the 10" you heard, doesn't mean you won't stubble upon a 410 that will blow you away. Maybe you just haven't heard it yet.

 

[staindbass]

if you play your bass through a velodyne 10" powered sub, you will see a 10" can make quite a bit of low end down to 30hz, far below normal bass cabinets. its how the speaker system is built and the quality of the driver more than the size of the speaker alone.

 

[staindbass]

everyone knows 15s have slower transient response than 10s guys

</troll>

depends on the moving mass (mm) of the speaker. a cheap 10" using poor quality paper will have to be thicker and heavier to withstand the stress.