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Song Input

mellowinman

mellowinman

Free Man
Oct 19, 2011
11,818
18,518
63
Minneapolis
#1
I was wondering how any of you deal with choosing songs to play live.

I feel strongly that singers get final approval, because if they don't feel comfortable singing it, they aren't going to be able to do the song justice. Whether it's a vocal style, or a presentation style, you have to "sell" the song, as a vocalist, whereas when I am just playing bass, guitar or keyboard, I can play any song by any band.

How much input should a non-singing drummer who just joined a band have on getting songs onto the set-list?

In our band, the rule is, 95% of our songs have to be songs the audience will know. If you want to get an "exception," you have to make a heck of a strong case for WHY.

Any thoughts?
 
#2
My three main criteria are:

1.) Can we accurately and respectively pull it off?

2.) Is it a song that's going to get a positive reaction?

3.) Is it "us"? We have done some songs that may seem off the wall for our setlist, but we don't make a habit of it.

IME, you can get away with relatively unknown songs if they have a strong hook to them. My band used to play Old School by Overkill, and it would actually pack the dance floor with people who were dancing to the Buckcherry tune just three numbers ago.

Also, for a band that mixes originals and covers, the originals should be close to the same quality as the covers. There's nothing worst than a band playing a bunch of covers and then playing an original in which it's quite obvious they're playing an original...if you know what I mean. ;) :D
 
#3
LiquidMidnight said:
My three main criteria are:

1.) Can we accurately and respectively pull it off?

2.) Is it a song that's going to get a positive reaction?

3.) Is it "us"? We have done some songs that may seem off the wall for our setlist, but we don't make a habit of it.

IME, you can get away with relatively unknown songs if they have a strong hook to them. My band used to play Old School by Overkill, and it would actually pack the dance floor with people who were dancing to the Buckcherry tune just three numbers ago.

Also, for a band that mixes originals and covers, the originals should be close to the same quality as the covers. There's nothing worst than a band playing a bunch of covers and then playing an original in which it's quite obvious they're playing an original...if you know what I mean. ;) :D
Click to expand...

Original "bathroom break" songs.

Hate that!
 
#5
As a member of an original band one could also format the OP as such:

"How much input does any one member of the band contribute when creating a song?"

As a songwriting bassist in a band with a really good guitarist/songwriter I find my input is taken more for worth than say, our drummer, who also used to play bass, but wasnt really a song writer. Im pretty sure that I was asked to join this band not only for my bass playing (and backup vocals) but also for my songwriting abilities. Since joining, most new material is run by me for my input, and our songwriter seems to appreciate having another perspective.
 
#6
I agree the singer is the governor, that's how it works in my current cover band. Everybody gets input, and the ideas are kicked around. Some people have more ideas and desire to choose songs than others so the amount of ideas coming varies from person to person. Not all ideas are adopted, there has to be some buy-in by at least one or two other members for a song to get played.

A new member should wait a while before expecting to have equal input into songs, but not too long. After that "while," everyone should have equal right to bring up ideas for consideration, with the singer holding veto power for the reason you posted. In other words, the new drummer (non-singing doesn't matter) should have little input at first, but equal input after he's established.

My 2¢
 
#7
ChrisB2 said:
I agree the singer is the governor, that's how it works in my current cover band. Everybody gets input, and the ideas are kicked around. Some people have more ideas and desire to choose songs than others so the amount of ideas coming varies from person to person. Not all ideas are adopted, there has to be some buy-in by at least one or two other members for a song to get played.

A new member should wait a while before expecting to have equal input into songs, but not too long. After that "while," everyone should have equal right to bring up ideas for consideration, with the singer holding veto power for the reason you posted. In other words, the new drummer (non-singing doesn't matter) should have little input at first, but equal input after he's established.

My 2¢
Click to expand...

So he should probably play a gig with us before worrying about adding songs to the set list?
 
#8
I think it's fair that your singer gets final say because they ultimately have to sing the song. However, unless you are boxed in to very specific genres, someone needs to make sure there is consideration of genre variety, dynamics, repeating key signatures, repeating tempos and repeat songs by the same bands. Just because someone can sing doesn't mean they think of all other details or can draft a setlist.

I think looking at your current setlist keeping in mind the above is a good start to see where to go next.

First post. Hope this was helpful.
 
#9
I think you and your bandmates need to be honest about what you do well and what you don't. Can't do Led Zepplin if your guitarist and singer can't hack it.

Do what you do well and play fun songs. That way you sound good and the fun is infectious
 
#11
mellowinman said:
So he should probably play a gig with us before worrying about adding songs to the set list?
Click to expand...

I would say yes a few gigs, but it depends. How far out is the next gig? Has he learned all the current songs? Do the rest of you have time to learn his song(s)? The personalities involved will come into play as well.

In other words, if you're super busy and he's scrambling to get your current set list down and you guys have shows this weekend, then no, his songs would have to wait. However, if he knows all your songs and you have three or four more practices before the next gig, then if he can sell you on his ideas it would seem you could accommodate him.

Bottom line, he should be respectful that he's the new guy at the bottom of the totem pole and not rock the boat. Unless you guys are desperate. :p
 
#12
He has yet to learn all the material for the four sets. We do plenty of "drummer" songs; songs that should be a real treat and challenge for a good player, and he has agreed to this before. So far, he has suggested songs that are not hits, and are not songs any of our three singers would want to sing. They are not songs that fit the band. I have told him to suggest as many songs as he likes, and that if he suggests 30, he might get two or three approved. That's what all of us had to do. There has to be a consensus. I sing lead on over 1/2 of our material; more than anyone else, and we only have a few songs that were suggested by me. Most of our set list was driven by our guitar player, and the REASON he got so many songs is that they were songs that I liked, and our other bass player/lead singer liked. They are also songs we play very well, and that the audience likes.
Another reason he got so many is that he didn't get so many. He's been rejected on hundreds of songs, and he doesn't so much "suggest" songs as start jamming on something, and then I sing along, and laugh, and say, "man, we can't do that one," and then sometimes one just "happens," and I go, "oh, I guess we should DO that one!"

That's how I ended up singing "Whole Lotta Love." I never, in a million years thought I could sing that, but it turns out, I can.

So I do, by God.
 
#13
There are only two reasons to play a song:

1. Cuz I like it
2. Cuz someone else likes it.

I found to make rehearsals fun for "everyone" the round robin approach works really well. Each team mate picks a song in turn to play. Equal picks, the idea is I'll play your favorite if you'll play mine. No questions asked. Train wrecks are allowed. "I don't know it" is not an excuse to skip it. Each song gets played once with few exceptions. Very little time is "wasted" on any given song. Rehearsal is not the place to "learn" songs or get/receive music lessons. If you don't play my favorite songs I'll eventually find someone else to jam with. This method also grows your song list quickly. You also learn your team mates tastes and abilities.

Gigs are another story all together. Now your playing to and for someone else. Know your audience and play their favorites to the best of your ability. If there is a way let your audience pick 100%. Train wrecks are not allowed. "I don't know it" is a good excuse to skip it. Gigs are not the place to "learn" a song or get/receive music lessons. Songs you play poorly stay in the rehearsal room. Each song gets played once with few exceptions. Gigs are a good place to experiment to see what works but stick to the formula if ya can. Take your drummers advice he's a musician to.

Best formula is keep an open mind.
 
#14
Just to get you an idea, this is the setlist we have been refining for two and a half years, in its latest form, and what we are going to play New Year's Eve:

---------------------------------------------------------------
Set 1
Ain't That a Shame - Cheap Trick Budokan version
Survival of the Sickets - Saliva
Train Kept a Rollin' - Aerosmith Get Your Wings version
Rockin' in the Free World - Kind of the SNL Version with an extended "middle part"
Yer Blues - Beatles White Album version ending more like the Dirty Mac version
I Hate Myself for Lovin' You - Joan Jett
Give me One Reason - Tracey Chapman
B*tch - Meredith Brooks
Slither - Velvet Revolver
Animal - Nickelback OR Bad Girlfriend - Theory of a Deadman

Set 2
Piece of my Heart - Janis
Beast of Burden - Bette Midler Version
I'm the Only One - Melissa Etheridge
Second Chance - Shinedown
Ten Inch Record - Aerosmith (Live Version)
Sweet Emotion - Aerosmith
Knockin' on Heaven's Door - GNR version
Sweet Child O'Mine - GNR
Voodoo Child (Slight Return) - Jimi

Set 3
Tie Your Mother Down - Queen
I Hate my Life - Theory of a Deadman
(segue - a capella verse and chorus of CCR's Midnight Special)
Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love - Van Halen
Comfortably Numb - Pink Floyd
Don't Let me Down - Beatles
Kiss - Prince
Peach - Prince
Always on the Run - Lenny Kravitz
Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Love 10 minute medley with "Young Boy Boogie Blues" segment intact from "Song Remains the Same" - Little Richard/Led Zeppelin

Set 4
Whole Lotta Rosie - AC/DC
Ice Cream Man - Van Halen
Dead or Alive - Bon Jovi (starts out "unplugged" up until the guitar solo, then we bash them over the head with it)
The Ocean - Led Zeppelin
Revolution - The Beatles
While my Guitar Gently Weeps - The Beatles
Man in the Box - Alice in Chains

and then...

"What song is it you wanna hear?"

The full 10 minutes of Freebird, played like our lives depend on it.
---------------------------------------------

A lot of this has been worked up in "blocks," where we know exactly how we're flowing from one song to the next, with segues, and introductions. What our goal is, is to be the most polished, and kick-ass Classic Rock Band with a Flavor of Modern that the audience will ever see. The only "slow" song is "Knockin' on Heaven's Door." The only "Audience might not know it" song is "Yer Blues."

All of these are audience tested, and a drummer has to work pretty hard to play this material and do it justice. We open the show with a MINI DRUM SOLO, for God's sake!

We want to work the guy in, and make him a part of things, we really do. But he was demanding we learn two songs no one has ever heard of, that have a slow feel; one was by .38 Special, called "Same Old Feeling." Here is a link to it:

Same Old Feeling - 38 Special - YouTube

Does this song sound like it fits in with those sets? Plus no way am I singing that.

Next, was "Go Down" from AC/DC's "Let There be Rock." Another slower song, and remember, we already do "Whole Lotta Rosie" from the same album. "Whole Lotta Rosie" is a big hit; people LOVE it. How do we justify doing an AC/DC song that most bar patrons don't know, and has a slower feel?

I told him please keep suggesting songs. Here are songs I wanted to play, that got nixed by my bandmates, even though I am the singer on all of them:

1. Victim of Love - Eagles
2. All I Ever Wanted - Santana
3. Black Magic Woman - Fleetwood Mac
4. War Pigs - Black Sabbath
5. Hey Big Brother - Rare Earth

Those are five I can think of, that we actually worked on

Here are some my wife wanted to play that got nixed:

1. Kiss me Deadly - Lita Ford
2. Bathroom Wall - Faster Pussycat
3. A bunch of Bon Jovi songs
4. A few Meat Loaf songs
5. Rock and Roll Party in the Street - Axe

And Arthur, who has had more songs in this band than anyone has also had more songs rejected than anyone, because he never stops suggesting songs. He never acts "hurt" when we say, "no," because he knows there are plenty of good songs. I talked with the drummer, and I explained that he just needs to be patient, and keep suggesting songs. As the drummer, he has in the worst position, because he can't just play the main riff to the song, and start singing it, hoping everyone will join in. And our practices right now are dedicated to polishing these four sets for the New Year's Eve show.

We want four solid sets that we can't POSSIBLY mess up even one note, so we sound like a top, professional act. And he is the guy who can make that possible. We have faith in him, because some of them are already NAILED. But there's still work to do, and we can't backslide. Two rehearsals a week isn't much time to get all this stuff just right.

We are obsessive, and anal as hell.

That's just who we are.
 
#15
mellowinman said:
II feel strongly that singers get final approval, because if they don't feel comfortable singing it, they aren't going to be able to do the song justice. Whether it's a vocal style, or a presentation style, you have to "sell" the song, as a vocalist, whereas when I am just playing bass, guitar or keyboard, I can play any song by any band.
Click to expand...

+1
 
#17
MatticusMania said:
mellowinman, perhaps we are of different generations, and that may have an affect on my perspective, but I would not want to see your band (any band) play that set list.
As you said, its been tested, so there must be plenty of people who like those songs, though.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm not surprised. I checked you guys out. There's no question you're good, and there's no question you and I are of vastly differing tastes.

It's not just age, though. My lead guitar player is 23.

And I'm not saying that set list is a sure fire formula for success, either! We need the right audience, but more importantly, we need to really nail that stuff, or we're not getting booked, period.

You are doing your own thing, and may have a chance at fame, although the odds are a lot more against you nowadays than they used to be.

If you ever do hit the big time, I will fondly remember you as a famous guy who I once knew for not wanting to hear us do our set list.

;)
 
#18
Lol! Thanks for not taking my post as an affront towards you or your band.
Im sure those songs go over well with the right audience, and nailing the material should be the goal of every coverband (whether youre doing it "like the record" or in your bands own style).

Youre right in that its probably not an age thing so much as I have different tastes.
As for what Im doing with my band, Im certainly not chasing fame, havent for some time now, though I know our band leader still thinks it possible. Id be more supportive if he were to actively promote the band, try and make connections, and such. A lot of whats working against ourselves is the lack of motivation from everyone to do the work outside of writing and performing the material well. Fame needs to be worked towards, and I dont believe it comes from being a good band alone, unless one is extremely lucky.
 
#19
MatticusMania said:
Lol! Thanks for not taking my post as an affront towards you or your band.
Im sure those songs go over well with the right audience, and nailing the material should be the goal of every coverband (whether youre doing it "like the record" or in your bands own style).

Youre right in that its probably not an age thing so much as I have different tastes.
As for what Im doing with my band, Im certainly not chasing fame, havent for some time now, though I know our band leader still thinks it possible. Id be more supportive if he were to actively promote the band, try and make connections, and such. A lot of whats working against ourselves is the lack of motivation from everyone to do the work outside of writing and performing the material well. Fame needs to be worked towards, and I dont believe it comes from being a good band alone, unless one is extremely lucky.
Click to expand...

Your avatar looks like something Ralph Steadman would have drawn.

Are you a Hunter S. Thompson fan?
 

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