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Songs derived from other songs.....
- Thread starter Tony In Philly
- Start date
Benjamin Strange
Commercial User
- Dec 25, 2002
- 9,737
- 310
- 49
- Disclosures
- Owner / Tech: Strange Guitarworks
Benjamin Strange
Commercial User
- Dec 25, 2002
- 9,737
- 310
- 49
- Disclosures
- Owner / Tech: Strange Guitarworks
I suppose, by that logic, that you would call somebody like Matisse a talentless hack.
Witness some of his "sampling" (collage art):
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Sampling is nothing but the audio equivalent of a collage. Some suck (like P-Diddy), but others (like Chroma Key, Chemical Brothers, or Them) excel at it.
It's easy to write a song based on something that you've already heard and not realise it. Or even write something that's pretty much the same as something you've never heard
My singer wrote a song that was a dead ringer for big bottoms. But he didn't listen to big bottoms and go "hmmmm if I change that melody a bit I might just get away with it..."
My singer wrote a song that was a dead ringer for big bottoms. But he didn't listen to big bottoms and go "hmmmm if I change that melody a bit I might just get away with it..."
It happens all the time. I wrote a song about the problems of being homeless that ended up being basically the same progression and a similar feel to a song that was big right then called 'No New Tale To Tell', ecvept mine was called 'Long Ago'.
Except I hadn't heard No New Tale to Tale.
Except I hadn't heard No New Tale to Tale.
Shania Twain's song "Man! I Feel Like a Woman!" bears a remarkable resemblance to the Aerosmith song "Uncle Salty."
The Beatles' song "Come Together" contains at least one line from the Chuck Berry song "You Can't Catch Me."
The Beatles' song "Come Together" contains at least one line from the Chuck Berry song "You Can't Catch Me."
Check out the film scores of John Williams and compare them with just about anything written by Richard Strauss or Gustave Mahler.
Also, Hans Zimmer in his score to "The Lion King" (movie) did a a total rip off of Mozart's "Ave Verum Corpus" when one of the lions was killed by a stampeed. (the whirring sound in the background was Wolfgang's body spinning in his grave, where ever that may be).
Also, Hans Zimmer in his score to "The Lion King" (movie) did a a total rip off of Mozart's "Ave Verum Corpus" when one of the lions was killed by a stampeed. (the whirring sound in the background was Wolfgang's body spinning in his grave, where ever that may be).
Taylor Livingston
Commercial User
Eh, look man, I'm trying so hard to be polite, but you are making it really difficult, because you clearly don't know much about this subject. If P. Diddy is all you can think of when you hear "sampling", it makes sense that you think it takes no talent, because, true enough, it does not take talent to do what P. Diddy did back when he was just Puff Daddy. But this is equivalent to saying that playing bass takes no talent because Fieldy sucks. Go back and read my first post, wherein I mention some examples of incredibly uninspired use of sampling.
I don't know what kind of music you like, but consider whether it would take any talent to write Charles Ives Piano Sonata no. 2, any DJ Shadow or Venetian Snares record, The Avalanches "Since I Left You", much of Frank Zappa's music, or that of Pierre Schaeffer, Boulez, Stockhausen, or Xenakis. All of these composers/musicians made heavy use of sampling, and most of them made music with nothing but samples. I couldn't say for sure that you would like any of this music, but I suspect that you would agree after hearing these people's music that sampling does not automatically mean putting new lyrics over an old song. Open your mind up just a little, maybe something you like will fall in.
conical johnson: I understand your position and the point you are making, It is just not where I am coming from. What is really wrong with two people having two different opinions on the same subject?
I am truly aware that people have written music that sounds like someone else's music. That could be a total coincidence or maybe even some subconscious influence from a song heard in the past. Hell, there are only 12 note in music it would be kind of hard to do something that has not been done by someone before. BUT that is not what we are talking about here.
What I am saying is that hearing someone else's work and saying "I like that so I am going to put it on my next album" doesn't talk a whole lot of skill. It borders on plagiarism. It doesn't impress ME much.
I value the artists ability to have an original thought, and not just cherry picking the efforts of others and rearranging them.
As far as my taste in music, I have been heavy into the blues for about the last year, so believe me, I know how tough it is to try to not make one 12 bars song sound just like another.
Sometimes impossible! that being said, just copying some BB King backlines and throwing new vocals on top would be an acceptable blues art form by some - but it doesnt make for musicianship in my book. OK?
Ice Ice Baby! = Under Pressure.
I am truly aware that people have written music that sounds like someone else's music. That could be a total coincidence or maybe even some subconscious influence from a song heard in the past. Hell, there are only 12 note in music it would be kind of hard to do something that has not been done by someone before. BUT that is not what we are talking about here.
What I am saying is that hearing someone else's work and saying "I like that so I am going to put it on my next album" doesn't talk a whole lot of skill. It borders on plagiarism. It doesn't impress ME much.
I value the artists ability to have an original thought, and not just cherry picking the efforts of others and rearranging them.
As far as my taste in music, I have been heavy into the blues for about the last year, so believe me, I know how tough it is to try to not make one 12 bars song sound just like another.
Sometimes impossible! that being said, just copying some BB King backlines and throwing new vocals on top would be an acceptable blues art form by some - but it doesnt make for musicianship in my book. OK?
Ice Ice Baby! = Under Pressure.
What about people using the same chord progressions? That pachabel rant being a good example.
There's not much originality left
Same thing.
I wonder how many different chord combinations there are, maybe a couple thousand (a guess).
If no one ever re did what was already done, there would only be a couple thousand songs in the world.
Just the way my brain works (and the fact that I listen to so much music), but almost anything I hear reminds me of something I've heard before.
Often times I think it's convergent evolution or subconscious association rather than willful thievery, but it happens a lot nonetheless.
I'm sure I'm not the first to point these out, but here's some:
Flaming Lips Fight Test and Cat Stevens Father and Son
(I think there was even a lawsuit over this one)
The Offspring Why Don't You Get A Job and The Beatles Ob-La-Di
Led Zeppelin Going To California and Pearl Jam Given To Fly
Also, The Eels Mr. E's Beautiful Blues uses the exact same bassline, drums and punctuated guitar stabs as Otis Redding's "Look At the Girl" (which I can't find a video of) with no credit given. This one wasn't an accident, though I do like both songs.
Oh and here's an interesting couple videos that I found. I forgot about Paris Hilton completely ripping off UB40. That one made me really angry. I heard her "song" and turned up my radio thinking it was Kingston Town. Ugh
Similarities in Songs
Similarities in Songs II
Often times I think it's convergent evolution or subconscious association rather than willful thievery, but it happens a lot nonetheless.
I'm sure I'm not the first to point these out, but here's some:
Flaming Lips Fight Test and Cat Stevens Father and Son
(I think there was even a lawsuit over this one)
The Offspring Why Don't You Get A Job and The Beatles Ob-La-Di
Led Zeppelin Going To California and Pearl Jam Given To Fly
Also, The Eels Mr. E's Beautiful Blues uses the exact same bassline, drums and punctuated guitar stabs as Otis Redding's "Look At the Girl" (which I can't find a video of) with no credit given. This one wasn't an accident, though I do like both songs.
Oh and here's an interesting couple videos that I found. I forgot about Paris Hilton completely ripping off UB40. That one made me really angry. I heard her "song" and turned up my radio thinking it was Kingston Town. Ugh
Similarities in Songs
Similarities in Songs II
There are loads of Beatles ones (and they nabbed plenty of stuff themselves). When done well you end up with two good songs instead of one, e.g.
The Beatles - Taxman
When done badly you end up with 'Ice Ice Baby'. But that doesn't make the practice of copying or sampling other songs bad. Like originals, it's all down to the execution. And individual tastes - after all somebody was buying those Vanilla Ice records.
The Beatles - Taxman
When done badly you end up with 'Ice Ice Baby'. But that doesn't make the practice of copying or sampling other songs bad. Like originals, it's all down to the execution. And individual tastes - after all somebody was buying those Vanilla Ice records.
Taylor Livingston
Commercial User
Agreed. Again, check out my first post where I said the same thing.
Agreed. What I am saying is that this is not what sampling is all about, any more than any U2 song is what bass playing is all about. It's okay, I guess we won't get anywhere with this.
Also, there are not only 12 notes in an octave. Just FYI. Check out my new bass, which can play 24 notes per octave. Or Harry Partch's music which uses 43 notes per octave. Now I'm just being a contrary ass, though.
. Or Harry Partch's music which uses 43 notes per octave. Now I'm just being a contrary ass, though.
Now that's a name I never expected to see when I started this thread! Wasn't he the guy that adapted all these mallet instruments for that 43 note scale?
