Sonic Maximizer... Worth it?

[bassman1185]

I've used a rackmount Sonic Maximizer, but I have replaced it with an Aphex Bass Xciter. The Aphex sounds WORLDS better, and it's much more tweakable. The SM tended to suck out too much of the upper midrange and replace it with high treble, which ended up sounding really brittle and unpleasent to me. The Aphex just adds some more fatness and clarity to my tone without really messing with the overall EQ balance.

 

[scotch]

...

for some reason a lot of the other bass players where I live invent this idea that it's a distortion, or an EQ when its not at all.

...

Really? Not an eq at all? Even the manual confirms it. "Lo Contour" is a 0-10db boost at 50hz while "Process" is a 0-10db boost at 2.5khz.

Sounds like an eq that boosts highs & lows on paper. Sounds like an eq that boosts highs & lows in use.

Phase "alignment" or "maximizing" voodoo aside. What we have here is an eq pedal! That doesn't make it any less useful, but I think that the reason that "a lot of other bass players invent this idea that it is an eq" is because it is an eq.

 

[ItsMichaelYeah]

Really? Not an eq at all? Even the manual confirms it. "Lo Contour" is a 0-10db boost at 50hz while "Process" is a 0-10db boost at 2.5khz.

Sounds like an eq that boosts highs & mids on paper. Sounds like an eq that boosts highs & mids in use.

Phase "alignment" or "maximizing" voodoo aside. What we have here is an eq pedal! That doesn't make it any less useful, but I think that the reason that "a lot of other bass players invent this idea that it is an eq" is because it is an eq.

Manual!? Who reads the stinking Manual. haha. Congrats on Proving me wrong on this.

 

[fightthepower]

Contrats on having a clue

 

[bassman1185]

You consider 50hz midrange? What's low for you?

 

[scotch]

You consider 50hz midrange? What's low for you?

Whoops!!! Correction made, thanks!

 

[SpamBot]

Really? Not an eq at all? Even the manual confirms it. "Lo Contour" is a 0-10db boost at 50hz while "Process" is a 0-10db boost at 2.5khz.

Sounds like an eq that boosts highs & lows on paper. Sounds like an eq that boosts highs & lows in use.

Phase "alignment" or "maximizing" voodoo aside. What we have here is an eq pedal! That doesn't make it any less useful, but I think that the reason that "a lot of other bass players invent this idea that it is an eq" is because it is an eq.

Loller, I saw this and comparing doing what you said on graphic EQ to using my friend's BBE, and found I could duplicate the Sonic Stomp exactly. I thought he would be pissed, but his amp only has three band EQ so it's actually useful for him.

 

[Crabby]

I've owned a few of them and always ended up preferring them turned off. Really they are a two knob eq that can make a rig sound deeper and brighter. Not always the best thing to cut through a mix. Some wont play without one, some hate them. i think their usefulness is better when used to augment an entire mix rather then just a bass guitar.

 

[Zooberwerx]

What I do is, I run one for the entire Mixer. Therefore everything is better. Not just bass(thru the FOH), but also guitars, vocals, etc.. BBE362 rackmount, used $50 , one of the best $50 I ever spent.

Yep. I pulled the one out of my bass rig and stuck in the mixer's Aux 4 loop. Really cleans up a marginal PA system, moreso than an equalizer can do alone.

Riis

 

[bass_freq]

had the rack mount BBE, I didn't like it. Worked for my crappy ampeg rig, but when I upgraded to a powerful rig it made my sound sound terrible, so I took it out of the loop and now it sounds way better without it, I found the BBE added way to much bass to the sound drowning out any possible "warmth" it would add.

 

[bassman1185]

What I do is, I run one for the entire Mixer. Therefore everything is better. Not just bass(thru the FOH), but also guitars, vocals, etc.. BBE362 rackmount, used $50 , one of the best $50 I ever spent.

Now, I tried running my 362 in the insert loop of my church's PA, and I thought it sounded terrible.

 

[scotch]

The stories in this thread pretty much confirm my experience's with these types of "enhancers" (and many of my friends).

I feel like BBE or Aphex "processors" are one of the first "effects" that beginning bassists try out. The eq curves tend to attenuate midrange content giving a perceived "bigger" or "clearer" sound. This can definitely make an inexpensive rig sound gutsier, but it's really an equation for trade-off. Less detail in one frequency range exchanged for more in another...

It seems that as a bassist learns more about technique and eq (and obtains higher-quality gear), that the "maximizers" and "enhancers" end up abandoned. For example, you have a "light-bulb" experience one evening where the unit is forgotten or not used for some reason & the user finds that they prefer leaving the effect home! Gaining experience with how to use eq (and not use eq) properly also goes a long way to marginalizing an enhancer.

I've worked in a lot of world-class studios and played a lot of the best stages in the 'States & abroad. The only time I've seen BBE or Aphex maximizers in use was at project studios or churches, and at the occasional dirty rock-club. The price points of these units is set low for a reason, I believe.

(Now, before the attacks) if you use a "Sonic Maximizer", or whatever and it works for you - well then great! Seriously, there are no set rules and diversity in tones & approaches makes the bass tone world interesting! I suspect you'll eventually abandon it, but if not- that's ok with me. I'm just sharing my personal experiences and observations.

 

[Mudfuzz]

I think you are right on the money and I have to notice [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] while reading your post and can't help but laugh a little. The only major recording I know of that used a BBE SM was Scot Ian [guitar if you didn't know] of Anthrax used one on the sound of white noise of at least the tour for that album.

 

[rcubed]

My understanding is that the Sonic Maximizer is best used when you're playing at lower volumes when the highs and lows of your signal lack presence in the mix. It's like using a loudness button on your stereo (if it has one). It boosts highs and lows that tend to attenuate more than mids when you turn down. So it's probably a pointless pedal if you're able to crank your rig for gigs and recordings.

 

[RCCollins]

My understanding is that the Sonic Maximizer is best used when you're playing at lower volumes when the highs and lows of your signal lack presence in the mix. It's like using a loudness button on your stereo (if it has one). It boosts highs and lows that tend to attenuate more than mids when you turn down. So it's probably a pointless pedal if you're able to crank your rig for gigs and recordings.

Or if you have a useful EQ

 

[bad_andy]

+1 to try before you buy. I've been using a borrowed BBE DI-100X (link here) on my last three gigs and I'm really on the fence about buying it.

The Low Contour and Process knobs do seem like fat and bright boosts when run in front of my Ampeg SVT-II into a PR-1832HE full range cabinet. I found that in a club, on a stage in a large metal building and then in a tent, it worked well to dial my basic tone in the amplifier head and then use the two EQ knobs on the DI to add a pleasant amount of additional low end and sparkle.

With the DI and its BBE circuit in between my bass and the amp, I had to use the Treble and Bass knobs on the amp less to get a nice fat tone. I preferred the way the rig sounded that way to boosting these on the face of the amp. It's nothing I couldn't live without if I had to for the stage sound. The real value of the box is that it also fattens up the sound of the bass I'm playing as it goes to the PA. This does seem tempting enough to want to keep.

 

[starvingbassist]

had the rack mount BBE, I didn't like it. Worked for my crappy ampeg rig, but when I upgraded to a powerful rig it made my sound sound terrible, so I took it out of the loop and now it sounds way better without it, I found the BBE added way to much bass to the sound drowning out any possible "warmth" it would add.

yeah this was my thought too. I've been using one with my Mesa which I didn't necessarily need but it did add a little boost and punch. I just ordered an aguilar DB 750 so I don't think I will be using it for bass, probably add it to the PA rack. one thing I didn't like about it was it seemed to really distort when playing fast and strumming chords. like the notes were fighting instead of working together

 

[Bongolation]

Sonic Maximizer... Worth it?

$179 MSRP for this?:

OK, let me get this straight -- "opinions" and "personal experience" aside -- in point of fact this technology that "received 42 patents" is *nothing* but a two-band EQ?

Yes or no? ["And remember, Sir...you are under oath!"]

Knowing what I do of US patent law, that seems improbable as EQing is grossly derivative of an extremely large body of previous work.

On the other hand, I can make no sense of BBE's explanation of how it's supposed to work either.

GC sells these things for $100 and currently has them for $50 "in California only" so out of pity for the local manager and his depression-emptied store (yes, even on Saturday) I bagged one, but I'm starting to think that even at the price it's a burn.

I thought BBE was a reputable outfit.

So, what's up with this thing...really?

 

[jruberto]

$179 MSRP for this?:
On the other hand, I can make no sense of BBE's explanation of how it's supposed to work either.

As I understand it, the frequency ranges upon which it acts get a bit of distortion in the harmonic content, and there is some frequency-dependent dynamics manipulation, super high frequencies get some expansion based on how loud the midrange information is. It does incorporate some kind of phase trickery which to my ears is fatiguing and very "process-y" sounding.

In practice, I don't think it's great for bass. Something funny happens in the low-mids, right where the meat of the bass guitar is. But if you are into the scooped mid sound it might be just the right thing.

In the studio it can be useful on individual tracks (guitars, toms, even vocals) but never just patched in, I run it as a send & just mix a little bit of the "maximized" sound back in. Never on bass. Recently used it to good effect on a mandolin track.

Running a whole 2-mix through it is insanity. Sure it sounds "better" (it sounds louder, because distortion in high frequencies of a source causes it to be perceived as being louder) when you A/B it, everything gets more sparkly and a little less muddy. But it will give you a headache after about 10 minutes. I once read it described as "MSG for your ears", which I think is a pretty fair assessment.

It's just a tool, and like any other it's dangerous in the wrong hands. For me it's a device of last resort if you can't get a decent sound. IMO, not for everyday use.

 

[MAMMOTHvolume]

IF you can Borrow one I recommend it. What it does is Clean up the noise as it goes through the bass to the amp so all the levels come out equal

watch this video to help you understand it.



for some reason a lot of the other bass players where I live invent this idea that it's a distortion, or an EQ when its not at all.

I have one in my bbe Bmax preamp and I like having it.

that was the worst explanation of anything i've ever watched.