Some sound guys are also musicians on the side, some are not. On average do you guys tend to have better experiences with the musician types or non musician types? Or does it not matter at all?
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Sound Engineer Musician vs non Musician
- Thread starter WashburnAB95
- Start date
I try not to inquire as well. I have had good and bad with both. Some who aren't players with great ears with some names to drop, do think they know everything when they try to become producers. It's essential to know BOTH sides of the art.
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Well, I´m a soundguy and musician.
In my opinion if you want to be a really good soundguy....ok I said it wrong...I´ll start again...
If you´re only a soundguy than you don´t have to have musical knowledges. And also, if you´re only a simple musicians you don´t have to have pro-sound knowledges.
....but,
If you asipre to be a sound engineer, and a good one, than you better know music. It´s really important to know how to read scores in order to comunicate better with the musicians (not to mention if you do classical and score kind of music). I´d say it´s a must.
If you aspire to be a really good musician, than have, at least, basical knowledge of sound techniques it helps you understand about your tone, your position in the mix, what the engineer wants from you...etc. I think it´s important.
IMHO / IME as a pro-sound "guy" and as a musician.
In my opinion if you want to be a really good soundguy....ok I said it wrong...I´ll start again...
If you´re only a soundguy than you don´t have to have musical knowledges. And also, if you´re only a simple musicians you don´t have to have pro-sound knowledges.
....but,
If you asipre to be a sound engineer, and a good one, than you better know music. It´s really important to know how to read scores in order to comunicate better with the musicians (not to mention if you do classical and score kind of music). I´d say it´s a must.
If you aspire to be a really good musician, than have, at least, basical knowledge of sound techniques it helps you understand about your tone, your position in the mix, what the engineer wants from you...etc. I think it´s important.
IMHO / IME as a pro-sound "guy" and as a musician.
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The bigger issue is often they don't understand the genre of music. Punk needs different mixing to metal, metal needs different to jazz, pop whatever.
I've been a sound engineer in the past, mostly for jazz festivals, but as a punk musician I've noticed that most have no idea what the style of music needs. I mean there are some out there that are amazing, just amazing, but others... less so. I've met guys that didn't know what a DI was, that didn't understand where it needed to be placed (one time he was a studio engineer). Like everything there's good and bad. I think that being a musician helps, but given that venues are playing everything from rap, to metal, to indie and punk they need guys who can understand what these acts need to sound good.
But yeah, it's a tricky job. There's a reason why really good ones are hard to find.
I've been a sound engineer in the past, mostly for jazz festivals, but as a punk musician I've noticed that most have no idea what the style of music needs. I mean there are some out there that are amazing, just amazing, but others... less so. I've met guys that didn't know what a DI was, that didn't understand where it needed to be placed (one time he was a studio engineer). Like everything there's good and bad. I think that being a musician helps, but given that venues are playing everything from rap, to metal, to indie and punk they need guys who can understand what these acts need to sound good.
But yeah, it's a tricky job. There's a reason why really good ones are hard to find.
I believe that my bass playing experiences help inform the way I approach sound. Good or bad thing ... Not sure. I do see musician sound men that are inveterate sweeteners. That is that after they are roughed in and then dialed, they continue to sweeten right up to the end of the set. (Multi band festivals as that is what my company tends to do.)
I tend to leave it alone as much as possible after a few tunes, assuming sound check on the fly. Basically I'll ride the faders for solo's of I have to, I vastly prefer bands that understand dynamics and make room for the solo though...
Being a musician, sideman helps me intuit what might happen net with an unfamiliar act. I find that to be the primary advantage. I'm guess a non musician who has logged many hours behind the board can get there if they want to.
I'm hopeful that at some point I'll nail down one of more bands that need dedicated sound support. Not holding my breath though ...
I tend to leave it alone as much as possible after a few tunes, assuming sound check on the fly. Basically I'll ride the faders for solo's of I have to, I vastly prefer bands that understand dynamics and make room for the solo though...
Being a musician, sideman helps me intuit what might happen net with an unfamiliar act. I find that to be the primary advantage. I'm guess a non musician who has logged many hours behind the board can get there if they want to.
I'm hopeful that at some point I'll nail down one of more bands that need dedicated sound support. Not holding my breath though ...
I have moderate amount of experience with sound, novice with bass.
This is my opinion.
It is more important for the musicians to understand the soundguys job then the soundguy to understand the music.
The reason is, if the musician understands what a compressor does, how to adjust his tone, how to adjust his distortion as to not make the soundguys job hell, how to decide whether certain instruments should be panned or not etc... Then the overall sound is just better because the musicians have a lot of control over the sound.
If the sound guy doesnt know much about music theory, he can still pinpoint the basic errors of poor sound delivery just by using his ears. I didnt know how to play bass or any instrument for that matter but I really knew how to use filters and devices well enough to master my own tracks that I mixed.
This is my opinion.
It is more important for the musicians to understand the soundguys job then the soundguy to understand the music.
The reason is, if the musician understands what a compressor does, how to adjust his tone, how to adjust his distortion as to not make the soundguys job hell, how to decide whether certain instruments should be panned or not etc... Then the overall sound is just better because the musicians have a lot of control over the sound.
If the sound guy doesnt know much about music theory, he can still pinpoint the basic errors of poor sound delivery just by using his ears. I didnt know how to play bass or any instrument for that matter but I really knew how to use filters and devices well enough to master my own tracks that I mixed.
Theoretically, it shouldn't matter. One might argue that musicians will have a greater understanding of music, so will have a better knowledge of how to mix it. Then again, a frustrated musician who's running the mixing board because the music thing isn't working out for him, could have a tendency to step over the line, and impose his own priorities on the mix.
All in all, I'd rather have someone at the board who's well educated and well trained as a professional sound engineer; someone who really wants to be at the board - not someone who just dabbles at it on the side, but doesn't have his heart & mind in it.
MM
With musicians, if they are limited to one instrument you might find some bias towards various things in the mix. Anyone who has recorded and mixed with multiple instruments will be very useful, as compared to the guitarist that just hops on the board because he plays an instrument. If they aren't a musician, they better be a serious music junkie with very broad taste in genres if they want to be useful in a mixed bag environment.
Musician that became sound man learned music before mixing.
Non musician sound man mostly come from an electronic/technical background.
Once you know what a gain structure is, what is a compressor threshold and how an EQ works , it's all a question of ear.
(Here I include musicality , knowledge of style and taste)
I much prefer to know that the sound man that is mixing my band is a musician.
(What I don't want to know is how good/bad he is as a player)
Non musician sound man mostly come from an electronic/technical background.
Once you know what a gain structure is, what is a compressor threshold and how an EQ works , it's all a question of ear.
(Here I include musicality , knowledge of style and taste)
I much prefer to know that the sound man that is mixing my band is a musician.
(What I don't want to know is how good/bad he is as a player)
Once you know the technical aspects it is all about ear. Yea many non musicians have a great ear. However though I am not sure if this what I was asking about.
Is "mixing" all there is to be a sound engineer? What about ability to communicate with the musicians? What about understanding what the musicians needs to feel confident and happy on stage? What about the ability to understand the musicians vision? Are musician/sound-guys better at dealing with these things?
Is "mixing" all there is to be a sound engineer? What about ability to communicate with the musicians? What about understanding what the musicians needs to feel confident and happy on stage? What about the ability to understand the musicians vision? Are musician/sound-guys better at dealing with these things?
This is interesting, if I am playing bass and setting up the sound for my group... I tend to put myself lower in the mix to make sure everything else is heard and also so I don't show favoritism. However if I am mixing some other persons group I make sure the bass can be heard
This gets to the heart of the issue for me. In general I have had better experiences with people who were sound engineers first.
Now if as a musician they have a successful gig, then they don't have as much to prove, or don't need a creative outlet so they won't be trying to express themselves as a "producer" during your band's live set. That's ok. But many times even if they aren't imposing their stamp on your band's sound, they still will have a more set opinion of how things should be mixed in terms of relative volume, especially making the instrument they play either too loud or too quiet, rather than taking their queues from the band's raw sound on stage.
Or the other thing that irks me is when the SE makes a value judgement of each band member's playing skill, with the "best musician" in the sound engineer's opinion getting turned up the loudest. I really dislike that- the "popularity contest" mix is usually even worse than the "my favorite instrument" mix.
So I think I usually prefer dedicated sound professionals who have good ears and try to convey the band's sound to the audience. It seems far too often that a musician SE just has too many axes to grind, they have too strong of an opinion on what a band, any band, is "supposed" to sound like.
I think that my experience as a musician helps a lot when I'm mixing. I usually have a pretty good idea what's coming, in terms of solos, choruses, bridges, etc. & I understand the language. I also try to use my experience as a musician to treat musicians the way I'd like to be treated if I were in that role.
on another note my band just got a support slot, we get to play on a rad stage with the best sound engineer in Perth. Every band I've seen mixed by him has been perfect... friends who've played there say he is amazing to work with, so.. yes much excitement!
I don't know about you , but I feel that someone who already has been on a show , on stage , has Waaaaayyyyyyy better experience at this than someone who learned it at school in books or by a teacher.
I like to think that a musician has a better "ear training" and general knowledge about style than a guy who studied electronics.
I know that it is a big generalization , but eh , that's what the interwebz are for , ain't it ?
Like I said , if any guy has Musicality , knowledge of style and taste , should be OK
All my "bad sound man days" were with guys coming from a technical background , maybe I'm not lucky.
This is interesting, if I am playing bass and setting up the sound for my group... I tend to put myself lower in the mix to make sure everything else is heard and also so I don't show favoritism. However if I am mixing some other persons group I make sure the bass can be heard
You don't count, you're a bass player and therefore have a distinct advantage over a guitarist doing mixing from the get-go
The assumption that a professional sound engineer is coming from an exclusively technical background, and is therefore relatively handicapped from the standpoint of practical musical application is, I think, unwarranted. Everybody knows, or ought to know, that having an extensive knowledge of music, along with a great ear, is a core requirement - for whoever operates live sound. In fact, it's a given.
Having solid technical chops doesn't supplant one's ability to effectively work with musicians...anymore than being a musician supplants one's ability to operate the gear knowledgeably and skillfully. But an engineer doesn't need to understand music theory anymore than a musician needs to understand physics. At the end of the day, we're still talking about two different, albeit related, skill sets. I still would prefer to work with a sound engineer who wants to be a sound engineer, than a musician who sometimes functions as a sound engineer.
MM
Having solid technical chops doesn't supplant one's ability to effectively work with musicians...anymore than being a musician supplants one's ability to operate the gear knowledgeably and skillfully. But an engineer doesn't need to understand music theory anymore than a musician needs to understand physics. At the end of the day, we're still talking about two different, albeit related, skill sets. I still would prefer to work with a sound engineer who wants to be a sound engineer, than a musician who sometimes functions as a sound engineer.
MM
I haven't met many sound engineers who weren't into music in one way or another. Most I've worked with are avid listeners, at the very least. Most love good music, and most have a very wide range of genres they listen to.
I don't know how or why anyone would do the job without a love of music.
I don't know how or why anyone would do the job without a love of music.
