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Sound Engineer Musician vs non Musician

Just for a bit of clarity, I studied Audio Technology. A huge part of my course was about music. Music theory, song writing etc. A large part of this was so that we understood fundamental music concepts. I'm not sure if all colleges/universities do the same thing, nor would I assume that everyone has formal training (or even that formal training is in any way relevant to the quality of an engineer). Just a little factoid
 
One local casino here uses the IT staff as their sound guys, presumably to save money. When I asked for a DI for my bass amp, I had to explain to them how to hook it up (and why they didn't need a DI box in this case).

So I guess knowing something about both can save you sometimes.
 
Seems that the better sound guys have some musical ability (seems like a lot of bassist/ sound guys). The worst sound guys, can't play the radio. I was playing guitar in a metal band- sound guy didn't like my sound.He wanted to "help me with my tone". first thing he did was turn the pre-gain on my tube amp down to 2, said "you don't need that much gain, I have plenty of gain on the mixer". That was the end of him "helping" me.......
 
You don't count, you're a bass player and therefore have a distinct advantage over a guitarist doing mixing from the get-go ;)
i've said this before about musician soundguys, it's bass players you want, because drummers are half-deaf and anyway never get to go out front and hear what the whole band sounds like, and guitar players and singers only pay attention to themselves!
 
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I know very few sound techs who aren't musicians of some form or another. Some might not be so good, some can smoke every single player in the band on all their instruments.
 
I know very few sound techs who aren't musicians of some form or another. Some might not be so good, some can smoke every single player in the band on all their instruments.
Are your gigs so elite that the sound tecs can pull for a sound check without the talent present? Are there ever situations on high end gigs where the talent just walks on and plays and everything is already set up?
 
I think the key is that you don't really need the sound guy to be
an expert music player. You DO need them to be an expert music listener.
Any sound engineer worth their salt will know the different mix requirements of various genres. They will also know roughly when to expect some dynamics. "OK, this power ballad is about to kick up"
 
Are your gigs so elite that the sound tecs can pull for a sound check without the talent present? Are there ever situations on high end gigs where the talent just walks on and plays and everything is already set up?
Oh yes, then we do our 10 minutes onstage and head to the greenroom where we are fed grapes and fanned with giant palm fronds by strippers.
 
Are your gigs so elite that the sound tecs can pull for a sound check without the talent present? Are there ever situations on high end gigs where the talent just walks on and plays and everything is already set up?

This is pretty common at the higher levels. The various techs (both audio and stage) employed by the artist do all of the setup and soundcheck and the band either just shows up and plays a couple of tunes or doesn't show up at all until show time. In these situations all of the technicians tour with the artists and are familiar with how the artists like things to be set up. Usually not applicable until one is at the level where they can afford to hire their own crew.

IME, good sound people need to understand (and love) music and while that doesn't preclude non-musicians, I've found that most people who fit into that camp do play an instrument (or several). I also think that good sound people need to understand the technical side of the job as well as the artistic side. The best sound people exhibit both of these things.
 
Well, you would think someone who is doing sound actually listens to music (gasp, what? why? Is it mandatory?) If your sound man loves polka music, and there's a polka band, he is likely to get the mix down pretty good. If your sound man loves folk and country music, and there is a heavy metal rock band, mix down might not be so good.
You get these sound men who have a preconceived notion of what sounds good. As musicians, we can't hear what the audience hears. In stage/auditorium settings, the musicians/singers hear a monitor-based mix down, and the audience gets the master mix. Oh, the sound men realize that too.
 
IMO, developed from my observations during my 17 years working for a large Pro-Audio/Production Provider, the best professional sound-technicians / board-operators started very young (as teens) and worked their way up through the cheap-o gear on their way to the good stuff. Almost all of them did this because they started as musicians and participated in the process of trying to make the rag-tag systems they used at the time function and work better. At least where I worked, a surprising number of the guys were bass players when they were kids. ...Seems the bass player was frequently the one with the desire for the PA rig to have more "meat" to it for some reason... :D

Going through Full-Sail or some other formal education on audio-engineering may teach you how to operate great gear when everything is going smoothly, but it's of limited help when things are going wrong. A youth spent in garage-bands and bar-bands can teach, through trial-by-fire, a lot of important skills that are hard to acquire any other way.

So... I say musicians make better sound-persons.
 
I think the key is that you don't really need the sound guy to be
an expert music player. You DO need them to be an expert music listener.
Any sound engineer worth their salt will know the different mix requirements of various genres. They will also know roughly when to expect some dynamics. "OK, this power ballad is about to kick up"


There's a lot of truth here, IMO. One of the other FOH guys at my church doesn't play anything, doesn't sing anything, and probably hasn't done either since he gave up the trumpet in high school. I don't know if he can carry a tune in a suitcase. But every time out, his mix is solid and consistent. I know that he prepares ahead of time by listening to the specific songs we'll be doing as well as reviewing any notes he has (mental or otherwise) from working with these band members previously. He also listens extensively to the genre we do. Seldom do I sit in the house and think "oooh, I might have done that bridge a bit differently" (subjective criticism), and very rarely do I think "I couldn't hear the lead line on that verse" (objective criticism). It's more likely that I'll think "Hmm, I wonder if that would have worked as well with player X as it did with player Y" or "I need to ask what 'verb setting that was on the last song, so I can try it out in two weeks when we're doing _______."

I've thought about this before, and have wondered if his ceiling is lower than it would be if his musical knowledge / ability were greater. His mix is indeed solid and consistent, but it is never spectacular. I often say to myself "Yeah, that was nicely done," and never say to myself "Wow, the band really hit it out of the park today." So does his lack of "musicianship" keep him from being an even better FOH guy? I dunno.

Part of me wonders if there's a parallel between FOH and conducting. In a former life, I was a classically-trained musician. I was certainly not the best tuba player in the country. Or state. Or county. Or city. Heck, I wasn't the best player at my small college. I did ok and that's about it. And once I did far less than ok, and was humiliated at a community band audition by making an astonishing error and losing out to a high-school kid with a plastic sousaphone.

BUT... put a concert band score in front of me and a baton in my hand, and THERE I was at my best. Not going to wave my own baton because that means absolutely nothing to anybody on a forum 25 years after the fact, but I was pretty good. Was it because I was a good tuba player? Certainly not - I was ok, not good. Was it because I could tell you the difference between an Italian Sixth and a French Sixth at fifty paces? Heck no. Was it because I understood the intricacies of the register break on an A clarinet? Uhh... no. But there was something there that at an elemental level just made sense in my ears and my head, and I was good.

Do some of the same things apply for FOH?
 
A youth spent in garage-bands and bar-bands can teach, through trial-by-fire, a lot of important skills that are hard to acquire any other way.
oh yes.

you learn to "improvise, adapt, overcome", and you also learn what is and isn't important, and what you can do without.