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Sound-man Sabotage?

#23
FOH can also be the jack@$$ sitting out front who can make you sound terrible. Back when I was touring and opening for someone else, bigger act than we were, there was a term we used for what happened to you. We would say, "the friggin' soundman lunched us..." Meaning he made us sound crappy so the headlining act would have all the power and authority of the sound system.

Really lousy way of doing business but if I remember correctly even Rush complained about opening for bands at the time that were more famous and the pudgy sweaty FOH "lunching them" as the openers. Welcome to business as usual in the Big Time.
 
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#24
Jack Wilcox said:
"FOH Mixer" is lingo for "head soundman", or the guy that mixes for Front of House (what the audience hears). Sometimes, on larger productions where several soundmen are present, "FOH" is used as a generic term for the guys controlling the sound. There's lots of regional terms as well, so lingo may not always translate.
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Thank you. Again, no intention of hijacking your post. Clever avatar also the only problem being ya never know what you are going to see.
 
#25
Robb Fesig said:
The FOH mixer is the mixer that controls the mix for front of house (Front of house being the speakers the audience hears). It is specifically mentioned because there can be more than one mixer being used. Monitors often have their own mixer, and if it's being broadcast, there might be a third mixer too.

FOH mixer is usually out in front of the band, typically near the middle of the venue. The soundman works from there to try to get an even sound for the entire venue.
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Ah, makes sense now. I'll bet most people have no idea what goes into putting on just a small show, let alone a big one. I find it fascinating but over my head. Thanks to you and Jack Wilcox for the help, I appreciate it.
 
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#26
alaskaleftybass said:
FOH can also be the jack@$$ sitting out front who can make you sound terrible. Back when I was touring and opening for someone else, bigger act than we were, there was a term we used for what happened to you. We would say, "the friggin' soundman lunched us..." Meaning he made us sound crappy so the headlining act would have all the power and authority of the sound system.
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Yep.. seen it, been on the receiving end.
35 yrs ago - when I was a young impressionable muso - my very first "band" got to open for a world-known Brit 50's-revivalist band (who shall remain nameless to protect any innocents who were not part of the band back then.. Yes, they are still going) who were on a world tour. Obviously, we were stoked, fired up and practiced like crazy!

Apparently, we were too good to be their openers. They were all back by the console (at the back of the 3,000 seat hall) during our sound check, watching us. We saw them talking to their crew before we left to head home and change.

Miraculously, our tuner and practice amp, were "missing" from the green room when we arrived back. Miraculously, the opening song and all the rest of our 45 min opening set got FULL WHITE light on the stage. No LED's back then.. Stage full of Par64 cans - all cranked. The heat was bad, so everything de-tuned. Oooops.. No tuners. The monitor mix was completely [and deliberately] hosed, so that there was nothing useful in my wedge. When you gesture at THEIR monitor eng, and you get the "I can't hear/don't understand you" type of response <shrug>. Full theater size stage, and I couldn't hear the lead singer standing 6-feet away. Couldn't do harmonies except from memory!
We SUCKED!
We were not experienced enough to recover very well, tho we did try. It was highly EMBARRASSING in front of our home town to be deliberately sabotaged to sound so bad !! :mad:
What do you say??
I learned from that, and we later heard feedback from other stops on their tour where the local band go the same treatment.
My first exposure to the nasty side of music.
 
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#27
I've had both sides of the stick as an opening act. Being sabotaged by the headliner sucks but it does happen. Nuff said.
A much nicer experience.....l
The headliner was a cover band trio made up of some serious pros with a significant following in the area. They show up suffering from the flu and without their usual sound man. We were told that we would have full sound but a lesser light show. Fair deal. FOH did a nice job for us and a mediocre band had one of those nights where we could do no wrong. FOH tried to pump up the he volume for the headliner and it ended up being unlistenably loud. Headliner thanks us nicely for doing a good job opening and took their lumps.
Fast forward a year and we're playing the same gig opening for the same headliner. This time they have all their own people in place and are on top of their game. Once again we get great sound at a lower volume and a lesser light show as everyone agreed on. We play well and the headliners, once again thank us graciously for doing a good job opening. Then they went on stage and demonstrated how pros do it. Wiped the floor with us as it were.
That was a series of events that lead me to understand that when you're actually good you don't have to play power games. A good lesson learned early in my career. Thanks to Tres Hombres
 
#28
I'm not saying this was the case here, but reserving the subs for themselves is an old practice for some headliners. One national act justified it to me by saying it wasn't to make the opening sets sound bad, but to make their set sound that much better.
 
#29
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#31
Just an update: talked to my guitarist, who stayed for the majority of the festival.

Fears confirmed.

FOH suddenly sounded fantastic for the two(???) headlining groups that night, But the sound immediately went bad for the 'opening' bands the following day. Again, fantastic sound for the headliner that evening.

We know many of these groups (and how they sound), and are talking to some of their members to make sure that everybody's on the same page before we speak to the promoter. No one is happy.

The trick's gonna be speaking to him in such a way that doesn't sound accusatory, but is also firm enough to let him know we're pissed. I fully expect him to blame the soundman, but as the festival promoter and GM, he hould have said something at least by the second day.

Here's the thing that really grinds my gears about this:
If FOH had left the subs off or let the house music sound equally bad, no non-musicians in the audience would have been any the wiser. The musicians certainly wouldn't have been, until the headliners took the stage. But to be shown up by house music? That's just low.
 
#35
Downunderwonder said:
show him who's boss. Next show don't take the stage without a sound check. When it's arse refuse to play. Next band, same, until the crowd riots. Then he's out of business. Bands change names. New promoter knows not to mess with bands.
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This goes back to my post about how to approach the subject: firm, yet not overly accusatory. Simple facts, "We're not happy, it was your responsibility." None of my peers including myself want to show anyone "who's boss". Having half of the bill say, to his face, that he's done a terrible job is demeaning enough without excess bravado. We, and by 'we' I mean several bands, have collectively decided not to work with the guy any more. He's already lost our support blacklisted himself as one-of-those promoters, so there's really very little left for him to defend.

It's less of a trial and more of a sentencing.
 
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