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Sound Travel/Carry???

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dirtboyuk

Aug 26, 2008
8
0
#1
Hi Guys not sure if this is the right section (sorry mods if not).

Been struggling with my set up for a few weeks n trying different options for playing in small venues. We had a practice last night in a reasonable size venue and I tried all combinations with my Laney amp.

I got one set up which when stood within 3-5 metres of the amp sounded spot on yet when you get any further away than 5 metres fromthe amps all the bass seems to dissapate leaving an ' empty ' kinda sound IE no bass. Obviously this is great for me as I can hear a good sound, same to for the other guys, yet anyone listening off stage will not get the bass !!!!

I have attached a phone image of the amp set up as this and would really appreciate any pointers on changing this to ensure that the phat bass sound carries out.

Please help guys as Im at me wits end on this!!!!
 

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#2
Hey dirtboy, I have experienced this with every setup I have used. If I remember correctly it has something to do with the length of the bass soundwaves being longer, and the reason you hear it better closer up is due to the vibrations of the unit and floor around it.

You shouldn't have to worry about it anyways, if a sound guy thinks you are to quiet they can always put you through the front of house speakers.
 
#5
tried that too !!!

Last night I put some wedges under the front edge to try and ' angle ' the sound upwards more, all to no avail.

At least some comfort in the fact that I am not the only one!!

Any pro guys in well any more experienced than me that can help us out??
 
#6
Hi.

You have discovered the exact reason why there tend to be a sound engineer for even the most modest of performances if any money is involved.

The "stage" sound is seldom the sound the audience will get if mixing is done from the stage.
That obviously includes our band as I do the mixing, onstage ;). I won't deny that.




This following is assuming that there's no real sound system or only a modest one for the vocals.

You'll need to find a person that you all trust to some degree.

He'll listen to, and set the balance first with Your favourite tone.

Then he'll ask each of You to modify your respective settings to make the mix more dynamic, ie. bass sounds like bass and guitars sound as guitars, not forgetting the vocals if any.

This all takes time and the settings would require some tweaking as the room is filled with people, but unless the person with the mixing task doesn't have a mixing console of some sort, it'll have to do. Trust me, it's better than just plugging in and playing.

Because of the way our ears and hands are linked with the brain, we tend to hear others better than ourselves. There's definitive damping going on, so if You hear yourself very well, chances are that you're way too loud.

Regards
Sam
 
#7
How far did you walk out in front of your amp when you noticed this loss of bottom/volume? Typically players have their amps way too loud as stated before becuase of the way that low freq sound ways take a couple of feet or more to open up as they travel out of your amp and into the crowd.

I would recommend getting out 15 to 20 feet in fron of the stage or your amp to truly judge what you bass is sounding like in the audience.

You may be hearing a lack of bottom end and volume standing 5-10 feet in front of your amp due to standing waves or null points depending on the amp, room and stage setup.

hope this helps,
Derek
 
#8
thanks for the suggestions all.

When stood no more than 5 m in front of my bass I get the full range yet when I walk any further form the amp the low end dissapears. Hence my issue - it sounds great when stood in front of the amp yet I fear that the audience will not be getting the low end bass sounds which is waht I need to resolve.

We only do v v small gigs and for fun not profit so a sound engineer is, sadly, no an option to us...yet.

I was kinda hoping that by adjusting my EQ settings I could get the low bass tones further away from the amp, is this not possible am I clutching at straws at least if I could discount this as a fix I cud start looking at other possible solutions.

Again thanks for all teh help so far, keep it coming please:hyper::hyper:
 
#11
Location will have an effect too. Are you in a corner, up against a wall, or several feet away from a wall?

When my cab is up against a wall due to size constraints or the stage, I'll turn it slightly to get a change in the sound.
 
#12
I've been told repeatedly by my guitarist and the soundman that we use for shows that my bass, when I set levels according to have a good stage mix, is not sufficient out in the crowd. So I turn up a lot louder than I would if everyone were hearing what I would like to hear in a mix, but out in the crowd because the bass dissipates so it sounds great.
 
#13
Your live sound in a room will probably not have the authority in the low end that you want unless you're using a serious rig on stage, so yes, fill us in on your equipment. Lots of PA systems have those big dedicated subs and a lot of power to push them. If those components of the PA were relocated up on the stage where you keep your own rig, it would probably give a few of you some new hairdo's, right?

You might want to have someone else play your rig while you stand out in the room. Have them cut all the freq's on your eq a bit and then play with only one of them boosted at a time. That can give you a sense of what freq's your amp is projecting the best. It might be the case that your 400-600 Hz range is what really drives your sound out into the room.
 
#14
Just a quick one: Bass doesn't tend to carry very far because its isn't directional.

All the power you're forcing out is spreading in all directions. If you were to take the same walk off to the side, you'd probably find the bass drops out at about the same distance.

As a rough rule, bass goes in all directions, and through things.
Higher frequencies (when being emmitted by speakers) are quite tightly directional, and bounce off things.

Think about it next time you hear loud music through a wall, or someone next door has a party. You'll hear lots of low-end, a little of the mids, and no shiny top end.
 
#15
The inverse square law at work with an (qualified as sort of) omnidirectional source.

The other likely contributor is cancellation within areas in the room due to the acoustic properties of sound waves. Sometimes moving the amp a couple of feet one way or the other can make a substantial difference.
 
#17
Still having this issue but been busy with 3rd (and final ) kid arriving!

Has spare few minutes and was googling my problem and found my own post that Id forgotten about - doh

Thanks for all the replies will try setting zeros on eq and trial n error it.

As for my set up I have is a Laney R4 Head, with Laney RB115 and RB410 Cabs these are not current so wont be on web site but a link to them is [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] just in case you need a techy question!

I have attached the spec of the head unit to this post.

Cheers Guys
 

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