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SOUNDCHECK: CREDIBILITY KILLERS 101
- Thread starter Metalbasspro
- Start date
You guys realize that if you hire your own soundman , you can make him do whatever you want, even take 90% of the soundcheck time for your bass.
If he doesn't do what you want , just fire him and hire a new one.
All your soundman problems are then solved.
Also keep in mind that normally , someone should have made advances with the theater.
That includes a signed contract with the patch , stage plot, backline request , catering , etc.....
So if you asked for 3 specific mikes for your bass cabs ,and the broadcaster (theater) signed and accepted it , they should have it , end of story.
Just saying.......
If he doesn't do what you want , just fire him and hire a new one.
All your soundman problems are then solved.
Also keep in mind that normally , someone should have made advances with the theater.
That includes a signed contract with the patch , stage plot, backline request , catering , etc.....
So if you asked for 3 specific mikes for your bass cabs ,and the broadcaster (theater) signed and accepted it , they should have it , end of story.
Just saying.......
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the "90% of time for bass" part is sarcasm but the basic is true: if your band has your own soundman then you are his boss , not so if the guy is a local hired by the theater.Good luck with that.
What about gigs where you don't have a choice? I'd lose 60% of my work if I made that demand.
If someone hires me to do their sound of course I'll try to accommodate their wishes. If they want to micromanage that's fine - if they are hiring me as a W2 employee paying me union A1 wages for all my hours including travel time and then realistic rental rates on any of my equipment used (including vehicle) and hire sufficient other help such that there's time to do everything their way. Otherwise as an independent contractor I'm gonna do what needs to be done to make you sound as good as possible in spite of yourself. I can usually prequalify a band as worth working with but I have fired a couple - AKA told them to lose my number.
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What if what you think is good is at odds with what the band thinks is good? For example, in my band, we do a lot of 50's and early 60's music, and the bass and bass drum aren't supposed to be overly prominent in most of it. But let's assume you like a lot of bass and you like the bass drum to sound like Phil Rudd's bass drum, which is completely wrong for our type of band, at least until we get into our later 60's and 70's stuff. Is that what you consider "making us sound good in spite of ourselves?" Because I know plenty of sound techs who feel that we're out of our minds wanting a mix like that, and they give us a blank stare when we tell them what we want. And they mix us and it sounds like Snoop Dogg's band playing 50's music and the show gets ruined for everyone.
I'm just wondering how a sound tech thinks it's OK to put whatever stamp they want on the band playing just because they're not paying them directly. Would you take Chris Squire's carefully crafted sound that works gangbusters with Yes, and force him to plug into your Whirlwind Imp 2 so you can make him "sound good in spite of himself?" Because to me, I take a statement like that as "These guys are idiots and I will save their pathetic asses," and it doesn't take into consideration the possibility that they know what they're doing despite you not liking their sound. And I really don't see how who's paying you is relevant for anything other than enforcing volume restrictions. I can tell you one thing, though...those bands may not be paying you that night, but if you treat them like they're idiots, they won't be paying you in the future when they need a sound tech, either.
And there we have the rub. People in this thread insist on talking about hypotheticals and absolutes. Truth is that entertainment is a team sport. You pitch, I catch, I pitch, you catch... Jimmy wants to work so he knows to show up organized, dialed - a well oiled machine, no doubt. Problem is that some folks of a less experienced caliber show up, having read Jimmy's posts and internalizing that they are entitled to the same- without having done the organization...the dialing.. Haven't logged the hours of sound check, logged the time doing the gigs, communicating with the sound guys, learning stage craft...
It is one thing to read the experiences and attitudes of the pro's It is quite another thing to have earned your stripes... If you haven't earned the stripes yet, you simply have to dial it back and work WITH the folks that are trying to pull it together.
If I have to be an asshat and direct sound check, I'll do it - because there is a schedule to maintain. If a few egos get buried along the way, tough... It is not the way I prefer to spend time though. I would vastly prefer you show up understanding what the process is.
So when a few weeks in advance, you geT an email foe me asking for an input list and stage plot, you should respond. Even if you don't have one. I'll help you build them because like most decent sound guys, I want you to sound golden on stage. Helps me get hired back after all... Your band can crater two days later... As the EMT's say... Nobody does before I deliver them to the ER...
Er.. Post above my response.... Nobody that is serious about being in the sound biz thinks that way. At least none of my mentors in the biz do. Some of the guys I know will turn down work because the idiom is wrong for them.. The guy doing the Victor Krause, Jerry Douglas and Peter Rowan tour is probably not the guy getting or ns wearing the the call to do the Sheryl Crowe or kool and The Gang reunion tour...
Cannot argue with that. There are bands out there who could definitely use some lessons in professionalism. And sound techs.
This is a very good point. Bands need to advance their gigs. Stage plot, input list, and any special needs such as multiple lines for one instrument or micing cabs needs to be notated.
Not sure what all the ire here is about. The article is simply reciting the most basic stuff about helping the sound man get you a good sound check. I’m not a pro, but I’ve done enough sound to have run into all these problems (except the “attitude” part). For all his criticism, I doubt JimmyM breaks into his extended repertoire of cool licks when the sound guy asks to hear him, or jacks with his on-stage levels or EQ after the fact. And - gotta love a drummer on his first gig who starts pounding and thrashing away at the whole kit when it’s their turn. And the mixer doesn’t matter? Lead singer buried under the background vocalists, cymbals screaming at ear-piercing levels, but hey no matter as long as we have an awesome, fine sounding system.
Being a bass player myself I’m partial to getting a good bass sound, but the musicians themselves are usually biggest detriment. Everyone – singers, guitar players, keyboardists – they want all lots of low end for themselves so they can sound nice and “warm” and “full.” But it just makes the mix sound like mud when everyone’s trying to be the “bass player.”
However, I don’t agree with the statement in the article that if you make the sound guy mad he’s going to make sure your set sounds bad. My feeling is that if the set sounds bad, the audience is going to think it’s the sound man’s fault. That’s why it’s irritating when everyone onstage wants a “bassy” sound, or play their amps so loud that I can’t properly blend them in the mix.
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Administrator, Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club #133
Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
Pedulla Club #45
Agreed completely; I have been on stage with too many self-important kooks who treat EVERYONE as "hired help" in my time... I've found that if you instead treat everyone with *respect*, the most amazing things can happen...
Your post points out one of the big reasons for the animosity between many soundmen and bands - a fundamental difference of opinion regarding the role of the soundman. Most bands I've been in believe that the role of the soundman is to reproduce the band's sound. Many soundmen feel their role is to make the band sound 'good' even if their 'good' is not what the band wants. I don't know that there is a solution to that problem.
I think the solution starts with sound guys being proactive and requesting info from the band ahead of time and/or the band being proactive and providing info to the sound guy ahead of time. We try to contact the venue early on regarding our set up since we have a lot of inputs (4-piece band + sampler + keyboard for certain songs) and they generally appreciate it. We've even considered providing a CD so they can get an idea of what we're doing sound-wise.
I'm about the only one around here that can handle that - sadly
. My point is contract someone who can understand and appreciate your genre and special needs and then let them do their thing. If you really feel you need to micromanage them then didn't you screw up and contract the wrong guy/company? I appreciate all kinds of music, from the primitive to classical to metal - and have a home system that's set flat so I actually know what it sounds like 
. I don't even have subs in my car LOL. And that's what you'd be paying me the big (yah right ) bucks for.Oh, and speaking of music from that era - there's always the question do you want it to sound like the record or how it would have sounded without the limitations of the recording process and/or the instrument amps of the days? I'd personally not run "hot subs" but would unconstipate the low end that the record had, especially if it was a longer song where they had to quash the low end into a 45. When I play it myself I tend to not play so many notes an octave up like many did on the original recordings - but only if the guitars are filling in the space thus vacated
.
A little artistic license is needed with us, yes, but we certainly don't need 30hz bass response. And like I said earlier, a lot of our regular gigs come with a sound tech and we don't have a choice in the matter.I'm about the only one around here that can handle that - sadly
Oh, and speaking of music from that era - there's always the question do you want it to sound like the record or how it would have sounded without the limitations of the recording process and/or the instrument amps of the days? I'd personally not run "hot subs" but would unconstipate the low end that the record had, especially if it was a longer song where they had to quash the low end into a 45. When I play it myself I tend to not play so many notes an octave up like many did on the original recordings - but only if the guitars are filling in the space thus vacated
I'm about the only one around here that can handle that - sadly
Oh, and speaking of music from that era - there's always the question do you want it to sound like the record or how it would have sounded without the limitations of the recording process and/or the instrument amps of the days? I'd personally not run "hot subs" but would unconstipate the low end that the record had, especially if it was a longer song where they had to quash the low end into a 45. When I play it myself I tend to not play so many notes an octave up like many did on the original recordings - but only if the guitars are filling in the space thus vacated
Or even how it sounded loud, or how they wanted it to sound in the studio as opposed to it being sanitised.
You'll be happy to know that all of my "subs" are like -10 dB @ 40 Hz
. And yes, I carry a suitable mic for a bass cab 
. But really, if there's just a couple hours to set up I need people to let me get on with it.
All of your suggestions are good, but my point is that there is often a difference of opinion on the ROLE of the soundman. If the soundman thinks his job is to get you to sound good as HE considers good, not what you consider good, then it doesn't matter how much information you give him.
