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Soundman insist on me going direct

#21
Savage_Dreams said:
thats all fine and dandy if all you want is a common bass tone. some of us like to use other options that are available to color our sound...
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What am I missing here? Why is it so confusing? The idea of putting all of the effects loop BEFORE the DI? We're talking about a live gig not a recording studio set up where the producer will effect the tone after the fact. When I gig, I run bass > pedals > DI > FOH mixer. The SE gets his DI'd signal for the board and I get to send him the tone I want him to have. Savage, you seem to be getting pretty ticked off about this whole idea that the SE is trying to drain all the color out of the tone but I don't see why the tone can't be colored before being sent to the DI. I do it that way all the time!
 
#22
Leo Smith said:
Two options, both are kind of on the sly --
1 - plug in his DI after the Sansamp.
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+1

1/4 out of the SansAmp RBI (sansamp output) to the soundman's DI and you'll have your sound outside. Get a 1/4 from the soundman's DI to your amp and you'll have your sound on stage.

I don't know though if it'll work if your amp is a final power amp (Crown, Crest, QSC etc...) as it usually requires a strong signal at the input in order to deliver. Maybe someone more experienced could enlighten us.

If your amp is a pre/final bass amp then you'll have no problem (just adjust gain and volume to convenience).
That's what I usually do (with a VT Bass Deluxe and a TC Electronic BG500 though) when the soundman is obsessed with his DI.
 
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#23
totallyfrozen said:
What am I missing here? Why is it so confusing? The idea of putting all of the effects loop BEFORE the DI? We're talking about a live gig not a recording studio set up where the producer will effect the tone after the fact. When I gig, I run bass > pedals > DI > FOH mixer. The SE gets his DI'd signal for the board and I get to send him the tone I want him to have. Savage, you seem to be getting pretty ticked off about this whole idea that the SE is trying to drain all the color out of the tone but I don't see why the tone can't be colored before being sent to the DI. I do it that way all the time!
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read the OP. what youre missing here is this is about a soundguy who wants to ignore any pedals this players has, in this case it being a tone shaping di, and yes this topic always ticks me off because too many bassists are more than happy to allow it to happen. in some players setups the amp is just as crucial to their tone, and people allow that to get bypassed as well when you di before the amp.
 
#24
I run my "grunt" box(es) between my bass an my amp's input. Not in a loop. Better control over my grunt, better signal to it, an it's in my chain before my D.I. I sound check without the grunt, an then switch it on before the set. I set the levels nearly identically, for this reason. A soundman's job, especially at a festival setting, is one of the most thankless jobs out there. I have been there. I know. I use my experience to help the soundman, even if he don know I'm helpin him. An it helps me, too. It also helps to tip the soundman. Especially if you makin mad cash, an plan on workin with him in future.
 
#25
It's never a good idea to piss off the sound man. At a big event where one sound guy has to mix 6 or 10 bands that day, the sound guy don't care about the basses tone. They just hope to get a usable signal that don't sound like crap. They have no idea the level of professionalism they will be dealing with that night. And a real pro works around these issues and makes the best of a bad situation.

When I run into this situation I am polite to the sound man. I try to make their job go smooth. If you treat them with respect and professionalism, they will most likley let you use your sans amp.

Sound guys deal with too many jerk off musicians that think their great. Musicians can so often be very difficult to deal with. I see this in many of the replys here. The sound guy has to set limits up front.
 
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#26
I'm not sure how that exact piece works in your chain, but any club I've played that has a real PA hooks up to the DI on my Shuttle 9.0. I don't lose the functioning of my pedals at all. Trying to mic a bass cab is very tricky because of the frequencies involved. A recording session might be different, but for a live situation you are pretty much in the sound guys hands. You won't change them, so figure out a way to get the RBI in your chain that works better, or live without it.
 
#27
I think the two best options have already been mentioned.
1) Point to the back of your Sansamp. It IS a DI
2) have a 1/4" cable already plugged into the back of your Sansamp and give him that output. You won't lose anything going back into your system after looping thru his DI.

Part of the problem seems to be that, as a bassist, your sound man seems bent on recreating his favorite tone instead of yours.
 
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#29
socialleper said:
I'm not sure how that exact piece works in your chain, but any club I've played that has a real PA hooks up to the DI on my Shuttle 9.0.
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yea, most of the guys i run into are great like that also. unfortunately theres a few that give the good ones a bad name.

people say let the soundguy do their job. yes. but a soundguys job is to transmit YOUR sound to the audience, not what he thinks you should sound like.
 
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#30
totallyfrozen said:
It's a pretty common way of doing it as far as I've seen.

If he's running sound for the whole festival weekend, then he has a lot on his plate and a lot on his mind. A lot of things are riding on HIS performance. He's probably thinking about a whole lot more than one bassist who wants to use his favorite toy. Try not to be too much of a diva.
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You may be missing the point- OP is fine with using a DI, he just wants to use his SansAmp with his tone dialed in, and the soundman won't accept the feed from his SansAmp and instead is making him use a clean DI. Using a DI = common way to do festivals; not using a player's SansAmp DI != common way to do festivals.
 
#33
svlilioukalani said:
It's never a good idea to piss off the sound man. At a big event where one sound guy has to mix 6 or 10 bands that day, the sound guy don't care about the basses tone. They just hope to get a usable signal that don't sound like crap. They have no idea the level of professionalism they will be dealing with that night. And a real pro works around these issues and makes the best of a bad situation.

When I run into this situation I am polite to the sound man. I try to make their job go smooth. If you treat them with respect and professionalism, they will most likley let you use your sans amp.

Sound guys deal with too many jerk off musicians that think their great. Musicians can so often be very difficult to deal with. I see this in many of the replys here. The sound guy has to set limits up front.
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I am sorry, but I call BS on this. What about the requirements for the SE to be a professional? Why are those so easily relaxed because he has a busy day? At a festival, the SEs make more money than any individual performer except for the top two or three headlining acts - they ARE getting paid to be more professional. We should expect that.

Also, there are too many example of excellent SEs I've worked with at festivals that handle all of this stuff with aplomb and make every band sound awesome, and without resorting to a cookie-cutter "each bass rig and drums set sounds exactly the same" approach. With all the examples of SEs who do this right, and make the performers feel comfortable and confident, thus *enabling a good performance*, why do we have to put up with these turd SEs?? There is no reason, no excuse for it. I reject your assertions.
 
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#34
HolmeBass said:
I am sorry, but I call BS on this. What about the requirements for the SE to be a professional? Why are those so easily relaxed because he has a busy day? At a festival, the SEs make more money than any individual performer except for the top two or three headlining acts - they ARE getting paid to be more professional. We should expect that.

Also, there are too many example of excellent SEs I've worked with at festivals that handle all of this stuff with aplomb and make every band sound awesome, and without resorting to a cookie-cutter "each bass rig and drums set sounds exactly the same" approach. With all the examples of SEs who do this right, and make the performers feel comfortable and confident, thus *enabling a good performance*, why do we have to put up with these turd SEs?? There is no reason, no excuse for it. I reject your assertions.
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Heh. I would love to live in a perfect world where soundtechs are all sunny an positive, and all bass guitarists knew how to carry the perfect sound everywhere. In theory? In my practice? I agree. But, this ain no perfect world. An all of us have bad days. So? Solutions are the order of the day. Not callin out the guy responsible fer yer tone. If I cannot find a peaceful solution in dealin wit a soundtech, which is FAR too often, I will do what's necessary. On my own. To not cause conflict. I agree. The soundman should work for the bands. Should... Too often? That just isn't the case...
 
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#35
The fact is he is the soundman that is putting money in your (and your bandmate's) pocket. I would not fool around with stuff behind his back, only because if anything happens, you will be blamed no matter the cause.

If he won't be reasonable, take the effects out of the effects loop, straight from your bass.
 
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#36
I have never met a sound guy that wasn't more than happy to DI out of a Sansamp or the onboard DI of a bass amp. Maybe I am just lucky enough to not have run in to any incompetent sound guys.

Either way, just have your Sansamp, and an extra cable on stage, after set up just connect your Sansamp between the DI and your bass, and give him no choice but to have it in your sound. Chances are he won't even realize what you have done.
 
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#40
Leo Smith said:
2 - he plugs your bass into his DI and the XLR to the board. When he walks away, just replug your stuff how you want, and don't say anything to anyone. Leave his box onstage near your stuff. At the end of the set, reconnect his DI to the XLR.
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Roadkill said:
If he's using a phantom powered DI (quite common) the PA and monitors will sustain a huge "pop" from that unless the channel happens to be muted :( .
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I would do this. And there will be no pop if you make the change before the sound guy makes it all the way back to the board. Usually takes a min or two.
 

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