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Soundman insist on me going direct

#61
How would you feel if a sound guy told you to only use your neck pick up or bridge? What if the sound guy told you to only use a pick our your fingers? His pedal board (sansmp) is part of his instrument. The sound guy dosn't get his signal till it leaves his instrument PERIOD. But try to be polite about it because it works better :)



Are you sure you the soundman knows why you use the sansamp? Does he know it basically functions are your effects board?
 
#62
Like has been said, when I get on with a new band doing sound, when bass player has an amp with a DI in it, it puts a smile on my face. Bass player in one band I do sound for has the RBI I love it. Sounds great, gets his tone through the mix and is in no way too hot, I put his DI volume on half, my channel gain is around 11 o'clock with a nice strong signal. For him not to use your DI instead of his, is bush league. As you guys are the headliner with a 3k audience, I would definitely be pushing the issue strongly, but politely.
 
#63
Ender_rpm said:
Um, bullS#i7 my good man :) There are about 1/2 Million products, from PODS, to Recto Recording Preamps to H&K Red Boxes designed to take a DI signal off an electric guitar. But it is expected that guitarists change sounds, from clean to dirty, add effects, vary volume levels, etc. Sadly, a lot of modern music does not require the same from us low-enders. Those of us that DO play with sounds resent the second class citizen treatment. I mean, your username is FUZZbass. Hows your Big Muff sound through a DI? My Bluebeard sounds like ass :)
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Well c'mon, I didn't mean "there's no choice but mic for guitar" literally! One guitarist I worked with liked the H&K Red Box, but the vast majority of guitarists expect to get mic'd and do get mic'd.

I already said I prefer mic, and I ask for that or wet DI (I use preamp OD, SansAmp or Reiner all-tube), but my point was that I'm not going to put up a fight about it. I'd rather run clean and dry through FOH than risk giving the soundman an attitude.
 
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#64
DwaynieAD said:
no one cares about your snowflake sound. if this sound guys is even close to worth his salt you're going to sound better doing it his way.
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so your basically saying none of us know anything about good tone and we should leave it all up to the soundguy? :rollno:

im sorry if your bland and boring enough to be ok like that but some of us want more out of our sound. dont punish us because others will bend over for a soundguy
 
#65
Savage_Dreams said:
so your basically saying none of us know anything about good tone and we should leave it all up to the soundguy? :rollno:

im sorry if your bland and boring enough to be ok like that but some of us want more out of our sound. dont punish us because others will bend over for a soundguy
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I get many compliments on my tone, and that's awesome, I love it. but besides myself and maybe 50% of the bassists in the audience no one cares. I know that chaps a lot of rear ends here on TB but sometimes you have to face the truth. I have never had a problem with a sound guy, pedal board and all. My routine when arriving at a venue looks something like this:

1- arrive
2- ask bar manager where he'd like me to put my gear and load in
3- seek out sound guy, thank him for being there, ask him where he'd really like the gear
4- move the gear
5- tell sound guy we only have one guitarist, watch his sigh of relief
6- discuss my gear and how he'd like to run the sound
7- literally never had an issue.
 
#66
So many soundman apologists on a bass forum. :eek: There is no need to be a jerk to the soundman (not saying the OP is) But unless it's a 10 bands in 10 minutes situation, it won't hurt the soundman to take a few minutes to work with you. My rule of thumb is when I'm opening for someone else I go with the flow, when I'm headlining, I want my sound.

I you are happy just plugging in and getting whatever the soundman gives you, that's your business. I just get tired of bass players getting called prima donnas because they want their sound coming through the mains.
 
#67
Yah know - if yous guys would stop hiring substandard soundguys the world would be a much happier place. OTOH maybe you'd have to pay more that $75 (or $150 with a pile-o-carp PA) and that wouldn't be worth it to you? IME unless you're getting north of $3k if you're not paying half your "take" for sound (& lights?) you'll get exactly what you deserve. My area is infested with $150 "soundguys" - almost all the sound gigs I do these days are an hour out for me, most bands here don't care if they sound like carp :meh: .
 
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#68
Why not ask him to take both signals? Mike the cab and go direct too. You can get your cab sound through the monitors to make you happy and he gets what he wants as well. He could even mix the two.
 
#70
I have been on the other side and sometimes the reason is that the bass player crank his volume that creates a big problem for the SRE. I was in a situation where I had to kill the bass in the mixing board because it was extremely loud. This was a 12 piece Reggae band the bass was bleeding into all the mic drums, brass section mic, vocal mics etc. Every time I was trying to give more monitor mix to the vocals or brass section the bass was there. The manager was arguing with me but was no way to be able to give a good monitor mix since the bass channel was muted but the extremely loudness make it impossible to work with. Perhaps this is one of the reasons for the SRE to get the bass direct, I am not saying that is you the one that is loud but maybe some of the bass players in the other bands are and the only way to have control is to go direct. When you have a good bass player with a good rig and a good bass it is a walk on the park for the SRE. I mixed Abe Laboriel and I didn't touch any EQ on the mixing board, his tone was jus perfect, he was already mixing his volume with the band, dynamics wise. Basically y just adjust the gain and volume fader. So ask him if that is the reason, which I believe it is. I love to take the Direct output from the head which could be pre or post, or either mic the cabinet with a 421 Senheiser mic, or even both, the signal post from the Direct Output from the head and the sound of the cabinet. Or better a DI Box where I take the dry signal from the bass and a the Direct Ouput from the head post. Good luck and work with the SRE he is trying to make you sound good.
 
#72
xabicho said:
I am not saying that is you the one that is loud but maybe some of the bass players in the other bands are and the only way to have control is to go direct.
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I fail to understand how taking the DI signal from before or after the SansAmp (or micing the cab) would have any effect on how loud the bass player turns his amp up? Yous guys kill me ;) .
 
#74
buldog5151bass said:
The fact is he is the soundman that is putting money in your (and your bandmate's) pocket. I would not fool around with stuff behind his back, only because if anything happens, you will be blamed no matter the cause.

If he won't be reasonable, take the effects out of the effects loop, straight from your bass.
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Is the soundman signing the band's check? I sincerely doubt it. Is the crowd there to see the soundman? I sincerely doubt it. So the soundman ain't putting anything in anyone's pocket.
 
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#75
aggrokragg said:
Almost every gig I ever played I was run through my M-80 DI (for some distortion and EQ) or straight out of my amp. Most sound guys were totally OK with that, but there was one particular venue I used to play at often that they insisted on using these old generic junker DI boxes because they were literally TAPED down to the stage.

After asking politely twice, I just said "OK, that's fine" and ran through them, because TBH unless you're playing a lot of up-front bass leads (maybe you are, NO clue what type of music you play) most audiences hear "the bass" and can't tell any difference in tone. It was a private battle of wills, and in the end, I didn't want to piss off the one guy in the room with access to the volume slider who could cut me off. :)
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I personally don't give a rat's ass what the audience hears or doesn't hear, or whether I piss off the soundman or not. If he cuts me out, I'll just turn up my amp. If I want to do things a certain way, I am doing them, even if I have to resort to subterfuge.

Also, the Imp 2, which is the DI in question here, is the worst DI ever made.
 
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#76
All I meant was that what the soundman was doing was going to affect the outcome - kind of like pissing off your waiter is not a good idea when he handles your food before bringing it to you. If you try a fast one, and the PA blows, even if it has nothing to do with what you did, you will be blamed.
 
#77
Roadkill said:
Yah know - if yous guys would stop hiring substandard soundguys the world would be a much happier place. OTOH maybe you'd have to pay more that $75 (or $150 with a pile-o-carp PA) and that wouldn't be worth it to you? IME unless you're getting north of $3k if you're not paying half your "take" for sound (& lights?) you'll get exactly what you deserve. My area is infested with $150 "soundguys" - almost all the sound gigs I do these days are an hour out for me, most bands here don't care if they sound like carp :meh: .
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There are some gigs you do where you simply don't have a say in the matter, and you can either turn them down and lose out on a fat paycheck, or you do them and gird your loins. You live in a fantasy world if you think that every problem like this can be solved by a band hiring their own soundman. What if you get there and the house soundman refuses to let your soundman touch the board? It's happened to us a few times.
 
#79
badstonebass said:
Nope we never had any issues. Known him forever and he has ran our FOH from time to time when our regular SE is busy. In fact the reason this guy has the gig is we recommended his SC to the client. I have neglected to make any waves as he is "colleague" in the local music industry. As far as he is concerned we are long lost buddies. That is the real problem. I don't want to make it an issue between us for the future. I am about the easiest going guy you would ever meet. I can't ever remember having an issue like this in 30+ years of playing.
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Just a thought... Sit down with the guy over a beer and talk it through. When I'm playing, I point to the Radial on my board and most sound guys are- great, we'll use yours. When I'm mixing I point to the Radial I want the bassist to use - if it is a bass guy with something special - and there aren't 5 other things to be done in 20 minutes, we can talk about it. Seems like you're internalizing there and 'externalizing' here. A little primal scream with the guy over a beer might just sort things out.

If I were the sound guy, I might be inclined to put a mic on your cab as well as the DI. I can audition it out front and then just use the DI if your pet tone doesn't actually sit in the mix out front. It's a technique I learned at Talkbass by reading the myriad threads like this one. Easiest way to get past the bass player and onto the next task along the way to making his band sound as good as I can...
 
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#80
Strange he won't let you use your Sanamp DI to the board? Other than your sound is great 3 foot away from you, but becomes a complete different animal at a further distance? Unless you can hear what he is hearing from where he is standing he maybe doing the right thing for the overall band mix. I have worked with many pro sound guys and I have learned over the 46 years I have been at this, is you are part of the big puzzle get your sound you love on stage so your ears are happy and they will do what they do to make the people who are in the crowd listening to you happy. Which 99% of the time is stick you right into the kick drum pocket and more so in a outdoor concert where things can get muddy real fast. Make a video and posted so we all can hear what he has done to your sound if he has done stuff to make you sound really bad we here on the board will let you know
 

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