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Soundman insist on me going direct
- Thread starter badstonebass
- Start date
That can happen. One local sound guy I know, let a regional act's SE at his board and replaced 4 18's for the glory of it... So that cut's a couple of different ways. I have a pretty good understanding of my systems limits. Unless I know and trust the SE, I am unlikely to let his hands on the board.
If a gig comes up with that as a criteria, genre depending I will probably turn it down. New grass guys, their SE no prob. DJ JoMama and The reggae AllStars.. Or Sven Death and his Metal Maniacs... Doubtful...
Sure, if you can't vet the soundguy ahead of time and yay or nay the gig you're kinda stuck - and of course a big payday is something you can partially base your decision on. I suppose those of you that tour see that a lot. If you can be happy with playing direct no pedals no amp (I do that sometimes) even better
. If I was doing originals and thought I had a shot at "making it" I'd be a real prick about my sound though and I certainly have no prob with working with a bass player that gives a carp...
And exactly how do you provide that protection ? I know how I do it. Keeping folks that don't know my system off the board...
I agree 100% with you that the audience can tell the difference between better quality sound output for bass (or any instrument) versus poorly engineered setups in a live mix. It's more that the average bar or club goer in a live setting who is there to hear songs probably isn't going to pick up on the subtle difference of some "thump/growl/oomph/chutzpah/etc" that comes from one DI box versus another that bass players themselves feel "define their tone".
Again, take my words with a grain of salt. I played in metal and grindcore bands, so YMMV if you are a solo'ing in a jazz quartet.
Maybe a good paycheck is enough to get some bass players to allow the balls to be cut out of their sound, but it never has been enough for me.
Okay let's put yourself in the other guys shoes, First off you are a sound guy poof! and as he is one of us a bass player. You get a gig to do sound some guy "Me" is opening his wallet and trusts you know what you are doing. I have promoted the hell of of this show and have tons invested my wallet to you has open to the tune of a few more 0's then you are used to having in your pocket. Every band in the show has a bass player who has a " signature sound" You are a bass player as we have mention and wouldn't want a sound guy to screw up your "signature sound" that's for sure! There are 5 bands I will make it easy on you. You have a colored signal coming from each, one guy thinks he is Billy Sheehan on the edge of feedback, the other guy sound is deep rich bass the next one is Metal with a ton of chorus, the other guy really knows his stuff and is in a Classic rock band who tweaks his amp a little to get the signature sound of every song they are covering last guy is in a punk band. You get behind board and you are ready to kick this show into gear there is a ton of cash going to line your pockets when this thing is over. First band starts and the bass is clacky feedback crazy stuff The crowd is holding their ears! You now are in trouble you need to do something as the $ is slipping through your fingers, because you just shot me a glance and I am looking at you like what the F are you doing! You get through it. 15 minutes later next rig is up booming mud out of control you start backing out everything now to save your a** and it goes on till the show is over! Now that was just your bass mix remember your need to mix the entire band multiple guitarist, different sized drum kits some over hand hitters a keyboard player or two who some of which have busy left hands that has taken bass mixed with the bass guitar through the mains and subs to a whole new level of mud. The chances of you ever working sound for me again are gone! And you can bet your a** after you took it into your own hands to ruin my show after all of my promoting and investment you wont be seeing me open my wallet! See now why Sound men run you direct? The mix no matter who hits the stage is clean fits the band mix and the guy who is paying you is happy to open his wallet for you again next year.
Another excellent joke post, rt!
Look, we're not talking about kids playing their first ever gig here. We are talking about a very experienced band who is HEADLINING a show. And Sansamps are so ubiquitous now that if a soundman can't deal with one, he's incompetent. As a soundman, you're assuming gross incompetence without even a shred of proof. And that's something I hate more than anything. And I really don't care how much money you have into your gear...if you screw with my show like that, I'll see to it that any band I'm in never calls you again, and I'll badmouth you to anyone who will listen.
Look, we're not talking about kids playing their first ever gig here. We are talking about a very experienced band who is HEADLINING a show. And Sansamps are so ubiquitous now that if a soundman can't deal with one, he's incompetent. As a soundman, you're assuming gross incompetence without even a shred of proof. And that's something I hate more than anything. And I really don't care how much money you have into your gear...if you screw with my show like that, I'll see to it that any band I'm in never calls you again, and I'll badmouth you to anyone who will listen.
Maybe but even good limiters aren't idiot proof... At some point physics takes over and illustrates any inadequacies in system design. In his case, i suspect his sub rack is way over powered for what he had that gig. I'm guessing that his power racks are setup to handle 2 pair of stacks as he is geared way beyond me...
My setup calls for 1 power rack per pair of stacks and the amps all have on board limiters. The amps put out about what the subs can handle. Still, just like with a bass amp... Your ears are the best protection...
My setup calls for 1 power rack per pair of stacks and the amps all have on board limiters. The amps put out about what the subs can handle. Still, just like with a bass amp... Your ears are the best protection...
Okay so we are talking about a pro show and they only have one sound guy whose only qualification is he is a bass player? I have done more than a few pro shows in my time and there were a team of sound engineers and sound techs running around like roaches ha ha ha.
I regularly do shows for crowds in excess of 2000 people, and a lot of them are handled by a single soundman. I would prefer that they weren't, but sometimes that's how it go. Still no excuse to cut the balls out of the bass player's sound when he doesn't do it to anyone else. But then again, it's typical of a lot of bass players...the old "What's good for me should be good for everybody" nonsense.
This only happened to me once, but I don't use any effects and I don't think using effects is "more". It is just different. I had to DI for a recording session. The sound man asked me what sound I wanted. I told him "a big fat sound with teeth". He had me dialed in in about 1 minute and we were both happy.
I worked these sorts of gigs back when I was in high school and I would have the eq and levels sorted out in about 30 seconds. If a high schooler can do it and you can't as a SE, then you really don't deserve that paycheck. I usually worked 2 multi-day festivals a month during the summer season and they were all like this. We always would take the DI after any effects and never had a problem. I also never once had a bassist insist on a mic on their cab.
The recording process is very different from live sound reinforcement. When laying down tracks, it is very common to run everything direct and dry including the guitars. That signal is then later pumped through a variety of amps and effects that can be tweaked to fit the song or completely changed from the original vision without retracking.
It is always best to get your sound from your bass. Also if you treat people with respect most of the time you can get what you want. Plug in his DI after the Sansamp. It sounds like you are using the sans as a pre amp. Being kind and cool will go a long way with other people you have to work with. Hope all works out!!!
