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soundproofing - is it possible?

so i've got space in my house where my band rehearses. it's on the ground floor, just below my bedroom and the nursery. it's nice sized (roughly 20x20).

meanwhile, i have a 1.5yr old, and within the next week or so, a newborn. my days of rehearsing in the house are over unless i can effectively soundproof. i have been reading about it for over a year (room within a room stuff).

question is... how effective might it be? i would hate to go spend $5k to soundproof the room only to find that it's still not usable.

anyone else go through this and have some words of wisdom?
 
How effective is a tough call.
There are books and articles on how to do this, with DB reduction found - but dead quiet isn't going to happen.
Not using amps or acoustic drums will quiet things down quite a bit. Use headphones, amp and room modeling (often called reverb). Voices transmitting through walls can be cut pretty good with sound proofing.
Kids should get use to some noise even while sleeping - kids grow up fine in cities where trucks and busses, and sirens blare all the time. It's a matter of convincing people your studio is quiet enough and the kid should put up with it.
 
so
anyone else go through this and have some words of wisdom?

Yepper, back when I was playing drums we would practice in my basement....then I got married and we had a little bambino... Lookit...I was told that the "noise" upsets the baby right?...solution: I gotta stop upseting he baby right? So I gotta get rid of the "noise"..... or the baby..... We tried practicing when the baby wasn't there, but that sucked.....so...we put the baby up for adoption....(rimshot!!!) lol... No really, about a year latter I wound up selling my drums and bought an accoustic guitar...BUT...I learned how to play guitar pretty gud and now I'm playing a six string bass and lovin every moment. (Hey, instead of soundproofing that big room...soundproof a closet and put the kids in there? wut? ....lol) The best to ya.
tjm
 
Soundproofing is really expensive and you might find that, even after you've spent a lot of money, it isn't 100% effective. If your drummer is willing to compromise the acoustic kit and use an electronic Drum kit this product http://www.jamhub.com/ might be the best option for you.
It's a mixer with aux channels that help you create a monitor mix for every musician who plugs in it.
 
to make the room soundproof, you need MASS. The rubber foam stuff is only to control sound reflections.

Put up 2 layers of 3/4" drywall and stagger the seams so they aren't in the same place. Use this between them - Invalid Link Removed

THEN you need a very heavy door with double rubber weatherstripping - You can probably find something used and add the seal. Maybe a used walk in freezer door? The door is a very big problem. A very tiny crack can let out a LOT of noise.

SEPARATE heating and cooling (a window type unit) or the heating ducts will just carry the sound right up to the entire house.

I think that under $1000-1500 should do it if you can do some of the work yourself.
 
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The only sure fire way is building a room within a room, but that is seldom practical. We had a studio in my friend's garage and after a couple of noise complaints, he paid an acoustics specialist for advice and that guy had us build a room within a room. It was a pain, but it worked. The garage was already insulated and drywalled, with a 10 foot ceiling. We built a freestanding space inside it with its own walls, ceiling and subfloor, self contained and complete, including drywall and insulation. We had an air conditioner that vented into the garage and a spaceheater for cold times. It was barely audible outside the garage, so in effect it worked.

The cons though: cost - we built a whole new structure inside of an existing structure; space - we sacrificed a nice big space and lost about 80-100 sqft of floorspace, plus ended up with a ceiling of 8.5ft; HVAC - it was always too dang hot and funky in there, no proper ventilation; acoustics - smaller room meant crappier acoustics. All in all, I would not do this again, for us it eventually just made sense to rent commercial space and use it after hours instead...
 
sound PROOF, not likely. dull it down a lot, sure.

turn everything down. go with small amps and hot sticks. then look into cutting the volume down outside. you will essentially make the room sound terrible. bass traps, sound diffusers, and acoustic treatment.. likely going to make the room really really hot as well.

id just get a practice space.
 
Hi everybody
Start by checking the areas around the windows, doors, and electrical outlets. Are they properly sealed? If not, you'll need to get some acoustical caulk like quietseal and fill in the cracks.
Are your doors hollow or solid? Try replacing hollow doors with stronger, solid doors to help block sound and seal all the gaps with Weatherstrips.
Finally, you'll use a series of techniques to add damping compound and drywall or quietrock to the walls and ceilings. Apply the damping compound to your existing surface (as it is), screw the new drywall over top, and fill in the seams with acoustical caulk and repaint.
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This will surely help and be worth the money.
 
How about just turning everyone down and going the electric drums route?

And +1 to the "get the kids used to noise young" route. When I was young no one tiptoed around.....now I sleep better with noise. Some bass coming up through the floor probably isn't going to bug the kids. Just turn down......you don't need to be balls to the wall at practice :)
 
You can do it yourself (I have), but to do it well takes a LOT of research, time, and some serious attention to detail. Whether you can achieve acceptable results with $5k... I'm a bit skeptical. I'm certain you could make a noticeable difference, but that still may not be enough. And with two kids in the near future, this sounds a bit ambitious...

I spent closer to $30k just in materials and about two years worth of spare time (BEFORE I had kids!) building a home studio. Admittedly it was a bit more complex (multiple rooms), but I also didn't start out with a square floorplan.

If I remember correctly 20x20 should give you a strong 56 hz resonance - ever notice your 'A's sounding extra loud? Also, if you're really trying to keep it quiet above you, figure on losing at least 6" (probably more like a foot) of ceiling height. And if the room has a framed subfloor, that could cause more problems (mine was on a concrete slab).

While MASS is not the only way to get decent soundproofing, it's certainly simplest. However, you can achieve quite a bit by layering common materials (example: MULTIPLE THICKNESSES of drywall with roll roofing in between, hung on z-channels attached to homasote attached to separate stud-wall inner shell stuffed with rock wool) But it's a lot of work, the material costs add up quick, and if you get even a little lazy it can seriously compromise the whole project. Don't even think about having a general contractor do the work.

How big is your lot? You might be better off putting up a simple detached building, which wouldn't need to be nearly as thoroughly soundproofed. Still might be a stretch for $5k, but you're much less likely to end up with something that's still too loud.
 
i would LOVE a detached building (and i would spend much more $$ on that if it were an option), but it's not feasible here.

my room is actually nicely balanced. it's on a concrete slab also, but i don't have 6" above.

looks like rental studios for a while. oh well. thanks everyone for their input.
 
You can build a very well isolated room at a reasonable cost if you follow the following basic, tried and true methodology.

#1 Decouple the framing. This can be done with staggered stud or double stud walls. To decouple the ceiling, consider clips&channel. Resilient Channel (RC-1) attempts to decouple, however there is no industry standard or specification for its construction, so I’d be concerned about using it.

#2 Install absorption in the cavities. This means standard fiberglass R13 in the walls, R19 in the ceiling. Know that there is no data that supports that any other insulation (including the “acoustic” labeled, and recycled cotton) works better. Also, foam (open or closed cell) is superior for thermal, but distinctly worse for acoustic. Use the cheapest fiberglass you can find.

#3 Add mass. Nothing better than standard 5/8” TypeX. Great mass at 70+ pounds a board, and cheap at $7 a sheet. Use two layers. Only mud and tape the final layer.

#4 Consider damping these drywall panels with one of several field-applied damping compounds. Some work better than others, and independent lab data shows you get what you pay for here.

After that, you’d turn your attention to the ventilation, lights and doors. All of these are flanking paths for sound to get out of the formidable room you just built. They can be dealt with fairly easily, but you’ll want to design this in.
 
^^ +1 to what Ted said. +10000 to the Jamhub idea.

soundproofing is incredibly hard. basically you'd have to float the room. that's gonna cost bundle. I went nuts to find a solution for recording my guitar amps in my apartment. after trial and error and finally giving up building and bought a vocalbooth.com box floated on an absorption pad (which they do make a huge room - expensive, but something to consider) basically all I can say is a 20watt guitar amp, not cranked, will emit the same volume as a TV turned up fairly loud. so I imagine a room w/ a bass amp, drums and gtr will be nearly impossibly to snuff . . . good luck!
 
You can build a very well isolated room at a reasonable cost if you follow the following basic, tried and true methodology.
I agree, although there's probably room for debate about "reasonable cost"....

Resilient Channel (RC-1) ... I’d be concerned about using it.
Used it for the walls (but not the ceiling) and was quite happy with the results, although it's hard to work with. None of the edges can be in hard contact with the floor/ceiling, so you need some kind of gasket and/or caulking all around.

Know that there is no data that supports that any other insulation (including the “acoustic” labeled, and recycled cotton) works better.
Really? That's a pretty strong claim... It's been a while, but I seem to remember some very real data on that.

Also, foam (open or closed cell) is superior for thermal, but distinctly worse for acoustic.
That's for sure! We have closed cell foam insulation in our current house and it is just about worthless for absorbing sound. "Transparency" might be great for some things, but not walls - especially when the neighbor's dogs get going at four in the morning.

#3 Add mass. Nothing better than standard 5/8” TypeX. Great mass at 70+ pounds a board, and cheap at $7 a sheet. Use two layers. Only mud and tape the final layer.
What we did for the innermost surface, which worked VERY well, was a layer of 5/8" and a layer of 1/2", with a layer of roll roofing material sandwiched between them (and this was hung on RC-1, on a separate frame). I don't remember the exact details, but using two layers of the same thickness is similar to having a square room - certain frequencies will be much less affected than by two different thicknesses. Also, any transition between two layers of significantly different material (hence drywall/roll-roof/drywall) creates a "shearing" effect (similar to light bending when you look at something underwater) which drains off some of the sound energy. That's part of the reason modern armor uses laminates instead of mass. Not 100% I'm remembering all the physics right, but as I said it worked very well for me.

#4 Consider damping these drywall panels with one of several field-applied damping compounds. Some work better than others, and independent lab data shows you get what you pay for here.
Too much "damping" is not necessarily a great idea. It might help with soundproofing, but it can suck the life out of whatever you're doing in the room. We had a very "damped" (bordering on anechoic) control room which allowed for very precise monitoring and mixing, but it wasn't a "pleasant listening environment". The outermost section of wall in the main tracking room was the layers described above, which gave it (combined with some careful dimensions) a very nice acoustic warmth. You want the room to sound good when you're in it!

After that, you’d turn your attention to the ventilation, lights and doors. All of these are flanking paths for sound to get out of the formidable room you just built. They can be dealt with fairly easily, but you’ll want to design this in.
Yeah, that's something you really need to plan from the start, although I'm not sure about "easily". It took me almost a year (spare time) just to get through the R&D before I started building. Also, if you're doing multiple rooms, you'll want to have some ways to get signal (line, mic, speaker....) between rooms.

Anyhow, again IMHO this can be done, but not for a couple grand and a few weekends. I could be wrong, but unless someone has specific experience with building a similar room and can provide the room dimensions, the amount of time required, the total material cost, and some decent before/after SPL numbers, I'm disinclined to believe otherwise.

OTOH, one factor to consider is just how much you need to reduce the noise level. Probably the first thing you need to do is buy or borrow an SPL meter and find out how loud it gets when you're playing, both inside the room and outside (bedroom, nursery, ...), focusing on low frequency stuff (the hardest to control). Then start turning down things down until the volume outside the room is acceptable, and measure again. That will give you an idea of how much noise reduction you need.

One other possible idea is to set up a tactile transducer (like http://www.thebuttkicker.com/) for practicing. In theory, you'd be able to "feel" the low frequency while reducing your low-freq SPL. If that works for you (and your drummer?), it might make it much easier to get "enough" soundproofing without spending way more than a few K$. Although I haven't tried it yet for bass, I have used these in my home theater setup and it worked very well (even with the sub turned down).