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Speaker as mic.....

xander8280

xander8280

Dec 29, 2011
463
4
#1
Besides kick drums, speakers as mice seem pointless. I have yet to try this, but I'm respeakering my 4x12 bass cab. I was thinking of replacing three of the speakers wiring them in parallel so I get my right ohm rating and keeping one of the original speakers and using it as a recording Mic out.....

I feel that DI signals are normally a bit stail, a speaker sim beefs them up, but wouldn't blending my heads DI and the cabinets "vibration mic" give me a full tone, maybe even truer to my cabinets sound. The air pressure and frequencies picked up right inside the cabinet. Like a big piezo. I don't know, just an idea. Will be a reality in less than a month or to. Will post results.
 
#2
I highly doubt using the speaker as a mic will deliver a useable tone.
Very curious about how that would sound though ...
Also I am wondering if the signal coming from that is suitable to plug into a mic-in? Although with possibly some attenuation/amplification that shouldn't be a big problem I suppose .

Keep us in the loop!
 
#4
DieterVDW said:
I highly doubt using the speaker as a mic will deliver a useable tone.
Very curious about how that would sound though ...
Also I am wondering if the signal coming from that is suitable to plug into a mic-in? Although with possibly some attenuation/amplification that shouldn't be a big problem I suppose .

Keep us in the loop!
Click to expand...

The signal will be unbalanced and probably very hot. I've had good results balancing and padding it down with a regular passive direct box. I was using a SWR Big Ben as the mic, sitting about a foot directly in front of my rig.
 
#5
I think you'd have to redesign the cab as a passive radiator cab. Just leaving in the speaker as a mic and powering the other 3 will mess up your low end response. Redesigning it as a closed cab in wich the mic/speaker basicly takes over the role of a vent might work.
 
#7
Matthijs said:
I think you'd have to redesign the cab as a passive radiator cab. Just leaving in the speaker as a mic and powering the other 3 will mess up your low end response. Redesigning it as a closed cab in wich the mic/speaker basicly takes over the role of a vent might work.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about that. It's a sealed cabinet. I will post some recording and pictures in the next month. Getting funds going and going to rig this up.
 
#9
a speaker and a microphone are both transducers. Dynamic mics operate in a VERY similar fashion to speakers.

You could use your headphones as microphones, if you very well choose to.

That said, what you are proposing, we have already done, and I can tell you, unequivocally...speakers are not mice...no seriously, it won't produce the kind of sound you're hoping for...

that "mic" driver will want to operate more in accordance as a passive radiator, yes.
However, first thing we do with old speakers, when we convert them to PRs, is...we knock the freakin' magnet off. Reduces weight to cab, increases airflow to cone.
Then, we tune the cone, adding mass (weight) evenly to the cone until it reaches a decent resonant frequency...usually on par with the cabinet.
Then we stiffen the cone, if we it is required.
So, having done that...I guess you can...put the magnet/coil assembly back in there and give it a go. Sure.
That's a simple PR.

But wait it gets better. With a 1x10"speaker, a 12" PR is a suggestion, a 15" PR would probably require the least modification...With 3 speakers to one equal size PR...forget it.

And, 3 speakers to a transducer...yeah, we did that...forget it.
Sorry, I know in the age of the internet, you just gotta believe there's always a clever way to get something done for FREE, or at least on credit, but not so.
You have 4 drivers pushing a lot of air inside that cab, at equilibrium.
Now, you take one out of the mix, flip it out of phase, and run 0voltage on it...You max out the coil throw on that single speaker, and it's going to sound like "PLLLLLBBBBMMMBBBBLL" and that's if you're tuned to A440.
 
#12
the Arsonaut said:
they recorded the whole song vis a vis speakers as mics? Those old brits are downright crazy...since different speakers have completely different compliances, I wonder what kind of speaker Paul sang into...
Click to expand...

It was just Paul's bass. And the aforementioned book is an excellent read. Does not always paint a pretty picture of the fab four.
 
#15
the Arsonaut said:
guys. seriously. kidding.
Click to expand...

Re: your earlier post:

What would happen if you turned a 4x10 into a 1x10 with three passive radiators, and only wired one up to record with?
That would give you one 10 getting power, two 10's acting as pure passive radiators, and the last acting as a microphone/transducer.
 
#17
DuraMorte said:
Re: your earlier post:

What would happen if you turned a 4x10 into a 1x10 with three passive radiators, and only wired one up to record with?
That would give you one 10 getting power, two 10's acting as pure passive radiators, and the last acting as a microphone/transducer.
Click to expand...

There is science involved with this, the likes of which could possibly BLOW.YOUR.MIND.
Since I'm nowhere near science right now->home, not lab. we're going to have to suppose.

Suppose that with a single radiator system, we want something a lil bit bigger, with enough mass to reach a lower resonant frequency, say...the frequency of the cabinet...so we load up some mass on a single PR (hopefully, one with slightly larger area than the driver).
Now, suppose in lieu of 1 PR, we use two. Yes, 2 passive radiators, ah ah ahh.
Suppose we're dealing with a box with a driver, a fixed microphone, and two PRs...and we send it some signal.
That signal, inside the box, is going to bounce all over the place.
It can't be stopped, no; it won't be stopped.
Like enraged particles heated up, bouncing around, pingponging off the back, off the walls, off of the passively radiating passive radiators...

And all we have is one mic (just like nas). But this mic is fixed in its location. If it's a bad location, our sound is going to be hosed (unlike nas).

I suppose, in best case scenario, it can sound like a mic at a port (as seanmonkey suggests).
But, I suppose, as a rainy day test...take a mic (one that can handle high SPLs..like 135+) and stick it inside of a port, and turn it 90 degrees. It will be bombarded from all directions by soundwaves, much like that Odd Man Out 1x10x2x10x1x10.

Why Passive Radiators are not terribly popular is...
a) tuned ports are more efficient (dammit)
b) PR cabs are usually bigger than their ported equivalent
c) the extra parts/time involved in constructing one.

Why we even deal with them is...there are some cool designs out there ( reverse sided PR systems come to mind), and sometimes we're in a pinch with a good sounding cab, and only one good speaker...
 
#18
Per a request of sorts, from DuraMorte...

we tried this today (we as in myself, and my lovely intern Sara).

At first, we had hoped to use a Hartke 4x10XL...however, not being familiar with this cab, we came to find out that it is separated into 2x10s vertically...so, no way to pull off the 1/2/1...

Next, we cracked open a Carvin 4x12. Again, it was there; I'm not recommending carvin or hartke...these are just part of our big ol' lost'n'found at the venue.

So.
(1) 12" 8ohm driver...top Left.
bottom left, top right Passive Radiators (speakers were unplugged).
(1) 12" speaker/mic. We flipped the speaker around, facing inwards (this is a sealed cab)

The Results:
It was bassy. With a Jazz bass into an acoustic, dialed at 12o'clock on the EQ, the driver sounded rather bright. And punchy, with a decent low end.
The Mic/speaker came through as thumpy. As you tweaked the EQ, or rolled back tone controls, or changed pickup volumes, the Mic/speaker was responsive, but muddy, thumpy...no high end whatsoever.
AND...what I had initially surmised, but did not want to get into in previous posts...

The speaker, being mounted to the cabinet, absorbed the cabinet's Resonant Frequency. As soon as you rolled up the volume on the amp OR the Mic/speaker...it went into LOW FEEDBACK...ROOOOWWR.
If you rolled up the bass amp, you had to roll down on the mic/speaker. And vice/versa.

The Mic/speaker sound, mounted in the cab, had bunches of low end, but it was being ping'd by all of those bouncin' around soundwaves...so it ultimately lacked definition.
And, could not be rolled up to a suitable volume, either from the driver side, or Mic side, before feedback into the mic/speaker ensued.
 
#19
the Arsonaut said:
Per a request of sorts, from DuraMorte...

we tried this today (we as in myself, and my lovely intern Sara).

At first, we had hoped to use a Hartke 4x10XL...however, not being familiar with this cab, we came to find out that it is separated into 2x10s vertically...so, no way to pull off the 1/2/1...

Next, we cracked open a Carvin 4x12. Again, it was there; I'm not recommending carvin or hartke...these are just part of our big ol' lost'n'found at the venue.

So.
(1) 12" 8ohm driver...top Left.
bottom left, top right Passive Radiators (speakers were unplugged).
(1) 12" speaker/mic. We flipped the speaker around, facing inwards (this is a sealed cab)

The Results:
It was bassy. With a Jazz bass into an acoustic, dialed at 12o'clock on the EQ, the driver sounded rather bright. And punchy, with a decent low end.
The Mic/speaker came through as thumpy. As you tweaked the EQ, or rolled back tone controls, or changed pickup volumes, the Mic/speaker was responsive, but muddy, thumpy...no high end whatsoever.
AND...what I had initially surmised, but did not want to get into in previous posts...

The speaker, being mounted to the cabinet, absorbed the cabinet's Resonant Frequency. As soon as you rolled up the volume on the amp OR the Mic/speaker...it went into LOW FEEDBACK...ROOOOWWR.
If you rolled up the bass amp, you had to roll down on the mic/speaker. And vice/versa.

The Mic/speaker sound, mounted in the cab, had bunches of low end, but it was being ping'd by all of those bouncin' around soundwaves...so it ultimately lacked definition.
And, could not be rolled up to a suitable volume, either from the driver side, or Mic side, before feedback into the mic/speaker ensued.
Click to expand...

:D Thanks for trying it! I was planning to use it on recording and not live sound so no feedback would occur. Was it suitable to blend with a DI signal of that jazz bass? To give it a lot of body? Or just too muddy all together?
I imagined it being the final track in the mixing of instruments. If the low end needed a little bit more space and not so much definition it would be added to give a "wall of sound" characteristic to the song.
 
#20
you'd get a better low end, mic'n a port...even with...tada! another speaker.

When I say that rolling up the volume led to the resonant frequency feedback...I mean...any usable volume...
I wasn't doing this in a room with live drums...I had to separate the cab and the reference amp across the room, and still the lowend feedback continued until it was almost completely rolled down.
Granted, this was a sealed 4x12...but the mic/speaker-being mounted to the cabinet, was amplifying the cabinet's frequency...unavoidable.
 

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