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Speaker cable

#21
Jason Anschutz said:
Speakon from amp to extension cabinet. Speakon from extension cabinet to the new speakon in the combo amp cabinet.
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It sounds like what you're trying to accomplish is plugging an extension speaker into your combo amp to use in addition to it's internal speaker. Do you know for sure that your amp will even do that? Typically, combos that will drive an extra extension speaker already have a second output connector on the amp. The potential problem is that the internal speaker and the extension cab paralleled can present a lower impedance load than the amp can safely drive.
 
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#22
For lower wattage amps I don't see a problem with using 1/4" connectors, speakons are by far better, but the reality, 1/4 plugs were used for decades. I've converted speakers from 1/4 to speakon just because I know they're less likely to cause problems with intermittent connections, and to reduce any chance of arcing, but that was done in higher power cabinets. (Old JBL 4732A's). I really don't see a problem in a 250 watt bass amp.

I do think that it's not a bad idea to learn how to build and repair your own cables. I suspect I've saved at least a couple thousand bucks in my life by doing it. I've gotten a lot of free Mic cables from people that believe you should always replace with new cables as well. You can argue the point, but I'd take your cables with a smile while you lecture me.
 
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#23
Redbrangus said:
I looked at that site. They didn't have any speaker cable stuff of any kind in their on-line 'designer' tool, although it seems likely they do offer that kind of thing. What I did see was that the audio connectors they did show are of the very worst quality...not Switchcraft, not Neutrik, not anything but cheap imported knock-offs. That makes me suspicious of anything they do. Labor is typically the most expensive part of fabricating a custom cable; to try to save a dollar or two by using cheap parts is a false economy and a poor business practice, IMO. I would ignore those guys.

Edit: I used the on-line designer tool from that site to spec a 3' XLR-to-TRS quarter-phone, a fairly common adaptor configuration; the onesies price was $22.96. With incredibly cheapass connectors. Stay clear.
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Ok ... Here's another company I use. intexcables.com
 
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#24
Wasnex said:
Some degree of care is required to use that cable safely.
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This is one of the things that I love about TalkBass. I had obviously heard about bridged outputs but I never knew what was actually going on. I had to do a little bit more reading but now I have a handle on the principle of bridging and the inherent user danger and why it's dangerous. Thank you Wasnex and Aged Horse...
 
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#26
HolmeBass said:
Dang! I guess this would this be the case even with the more common speakon to 1/4” male connector speaker cables? Would it be the case if you used the amp’s 1/4” out to the speaker’s speakon input? Thank you for this valuable knowledge @agedhorse .

I have some cabinets that don’t have speakon connections, and some amps that don’t have 1/4” outs.
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It's the case with 1/4" connectors and any amp with a bridged technology (including most class D amps)
 
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#29
Giffro said:
Yep thanks Wasnex...always best to cable up any amp speaker combination with power off. Thanks for the input. It does make you wonder though if this is such an important issue why do companies like Fender make their amp jack connection like this. Couldnt they have put a Speakon on the Rumble Combo ext out as well as the Ext cab instead of the 1/4" in use?

View attachment 3631474
View attachment 3631475
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It appears the 1/4" output jack is on the amp and the cabinet has a speakON input jack. It is unlikely the 1/4" jack will short against the chassis while it is plugged in. If the cable has been accidentally disconnected from the amp, there is no more potential for a short. I believe that a 1/4" plug can form a momentary short during accidental removal from an input jack. This is not a problem here because the cabinet side of the cable is speakON. I don't know if there is any risk of a momentary short during accidental plug removal from a 1/4" output jack. Perhaps @agedhorse can comment. You don't want to grab the metal sleeve with bare hands with the amp powered up.

I believe speakON plugs can be removed and replaced with no risk of a short. But I still typically turn the amp off before I do patching. IMHO, it's just a good practice to maintain.
 
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#31
Wasnex said:
It appears the 1/4" output jack is on the amp and the cabinet has a speakON input jack. It is unlikely the 1/4" jack will short against the chassis while it is plugged in. If the cable has been accidentally disconnected from the amp, there is no more potential for a short. I believe that a 1/4" plug can form a momentary short during accidental removal from an input jack. This is not a problem here because the cabinet side of the cable is speakON. I don't know if there is any risk of a momentary short during accidental plug removal from a 1/4" output jack. Perhaps @agedhorse can comment. You don't want to grab the metal sleeve with bare hands with the amp powered up.

I believe speakON plugs can be removed and replaced with no risk of a short. But I still typically turn the amp off before I do patching. IMHO, it's just a good practice to maintain.
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The issue is with the barrel sticking out of the 1/4" jack and not at ground, anything that is at ground and touches it will short 1/2 of the bridge to a ground that may not have been designed to handle that kind of current.

I did design one bass amp that used a 1/4" jack/plug combination for the speaker out. It was the Shuttle 3.0 that was primarily sold as a combo. The combo used the 1/4" out and was equipped with a molded 90 degree plug so there was no issue. Also, the bushing of the jack was nylon so there was no exposed metal to contact with. There was also a protection circuit that would shut the amp down if there was a short to ground of either half of the bridge, because this amp was sold as a stand-alone amp also. There was also short circuit protection from plugging and unplugging a 1/4" connection.

After that model (which was around 2005-2006), every bass amp was SpeakOn only which IMO is the only way to go looking towards the future.
 
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#33
agedhorse said:
The issue is with the barrel sticking out of the 1/4" jack and not at ground, anything that is at ground and touches it will short 1/2 of the bridge to a ground that may not have been designed to handle that kind of current.
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:thumbsup: Yes I understand this. My question is more about what happens inside the output jack if the plugged is accidentally removed, for example if someone trips over the plug.

On a 1/4" input jack, I believe it is possible to short the output of the amp through the cable because both the Tip and Sleeve of the plug may come in contact with the Sleeve connector of the jack. This basically shorts both sides of the amp together through the cable.

I don't think this is an issue with a 1/4" Output jack. My belief is the Tip of the plug will fully break with the Tip contact in the jack before any continuity is formed with the Ring contact of the Jack. In other words, there is no chance of a sort across the terminals of the jack when you pull the plug. Also, if the Ring contact of the output jack connects to both the Tip and Sleeve of the plug it won't cause a problem. This basically shorts the speaker terminals together and connects them both to the negative side of the amp.
 
#34
agedhorse said:
The issue is with the barrel sticking out of the 1/4" jack and not at ground, anything that is at ground and touches it will short 1/2 of the bridge to a ground that may not have been designed to handle that kind of current.
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Basically my supposition is having the 1/4" plug on the speaker side presents more risk to the amp, because there is risk of the plug shorting in the jack.
 
#37
Wasnex said:
:thumbsup: Yes I understand this. My question is more about what happens inside the output jack if the plugged is accidentally removed, for example if someone trips over the plug.

On a 1/4" input jack, I believe it is possible to short the output of the amp through the cable because both the Tip and Sleeve of the plug may come in contact with the Sleeve connector of the jack. This basically shorts both sides of the amp together through the cable.

I don't think this is an issue with a 1/4" Output jack. My belief is the Tip of the plug will fully break with the Tip contact in the jack before any continuity is formed with the Ring contact of the Jack. In other words, there is no chance of a sort across the terminals of the jack when you pull the plug. Also, if the Ring contact of the output jack connects to both the Tip and Sleeve of the plug it won't cause a problem. This basically shorts the speaker terminals together and connects them both to the negative side of the amp.
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Correct, provided the amp has effective short circuit protection from + to -, it's a viable way to go. I was just describing some of the practical issues with this type of connection in the bigger picture.
 
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#38
JimChjones said:
You can probably buy about three or four of them for the cost of making up a cable too. If I had the need that's the way I would go.
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Keep in mind the output of the amp looks like this:
rumble-500-combo-quarter-inch-ext-jack-connector-jpg.jpg

and the plug you are referencing looks like this:
092-065_hr_0-jpg.jpg
 
#39
agedhorse said:
After that model (which was around 2005-2006), every bass amp was SpeakOn only which IMO is the only way to go looking towards the future.
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Isn't it kinda funny how a connector like SpeakON, which has been around for 30 or so years, is still something others have to be convinced of as "towards the future?"

At least we still have IEC power cables....;-)
 
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