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speaker replacement, swr goliath raw speakers

Z

zook250

Dec 3, 2004
24
1
winnipeg , manitoba, canada
#1
hi guys,

i have an old GK 4x10SBX and i was thinking of replacing the blown drivers. i would use this for practice as i have a markbass 4x10 for gigging.

there are a number of online adds for a company selling raw swr goliath speakers in 4ohm Neo magnets or 8 ohm ferrite. they are going for 200.00 for a set of 4. they do not post the T/S specs either.

would you go for the 4 ohm neos wired for a 4 ohm load or go for the 8 ohms speakers again configured for 8 ohm load.

does anyone have any experience with this company "speaker addict"

thanks guys.
 
#3
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#4
Kind of a funky wiring diagram, but all 4 drivers appear to be wired in series - that would yield 16 ohms. You could wire them in series-parallel to get a 4 ohm impedance. What is the internal volume of the cab, and the number and dimensions of any ports? What are your performance priorities (tone and volume requirements) and how much power is available into 4 and 8 ohm loads? What is your budget?
 
#5
just buy the 8 ohm set and wire series parallel for a 8 ohm cabinet

getting cast frame eminence speakers for that price is one heck of a deal,
they work well in ported cabs or sealed.

same story with most 1 cubic per driver, your GK is right smack at 4 cubic
they are nice deep cabinets the stamp frame speakers not so special, the eminence be good upgrade SWR used good 10" speakers 95/96 dB way more efficient than some peg cabs
 
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#7
yes, those are the drivers. the SBX 410 is right on at 4 cubic feet. the T/S parameters are:Re 4.13 Ohms
fs 55.5 Hz
Le 0.53 mH
Mms 29.1 grams
QM 8.25
Mmd 25.3 grams
QE 0.46
Cms 0.282 mm/N
QT 0.44
Rms 1.229 N*sec/m
Xmax 2.37 mm
Vas 49.2 liters
Power 150 Watts RMS
SD 350.1 cm^2
Bl 9.51 Tm
VD 83.2 cm^3
Coil Diameter 2.00 Inches
EBP 120.0
Gap Height 0.313 Inches
Magnet Weight 38 ounces
Efficiency 1.76 %
Winding Width 0.500 inches
SPL 94.5 dB 1W-1m

when i do the calculations , i seem to be coming up with a box that is way bigger than 4 cu.ft.
 
#9
AstroSonic said:
Kind of a funky wiring diagram, but all 4 drivers appear to be wired in series - that would yield 16 ohms. You could wire them in series-parallel to get a 4 ohm impedance. What is the internal volume of the cab, and the number and dimensions of any ports? What are your performance priorities (tone and volume requirements) and how much power is available into 4 and 8 ohm loads? What is your budget?
Click to expand...

internal volume is 4 cu. ft. the SBX is a sealed cabinet design. i play in an ac/dc and GnR tribute bands, lots of 80's style stuff, both finger and pick. not to funky, really no slap playing or minimal at best. i would be using an old RB700II paired with an SBX 15 @ 8ohms. the 410 would have to be an 8ohm load. budget? i dont know probably minimal as my main rig is a markbass, and i dont really need to get this rig up and running, this would be just to compliment my GnR stuff . ive had this GK rig sitting for about 8-10 years never being fired up.
 
#10
zook250 said:
yes, those are the drivers. the SBX 410 is right on at 4 cubic feet. the T/S parameters are:Re 4.13 Ohms
fs 55.5 Hz
Le 0.53 mH
Mms 29.1 grams
QM 8.25
Mmd 25.3 grams
QE 0.46
Cms 0.282 mm/N
QT 0.44
Rms 1.229 N*sec/m
Xmax 2.37 mm
Vas 49.2 liters
Power 150 Watts RMS
SD 350.1 cm^2
Bl 9.51 Tm
VD 83.2 cm^3
Coil Diameter 2.00 Inches
EBP 120.0
Gap Height 0.313 Inches
Magnet Weight 38 ounces
Efficiency 1.76 %
Winding Width 0.500 inches
SPL 94.5 dB 1W-1m

when i do the calculations , i seem to be coming up with a box that is way bigger than 4 cu.ft.
Click to expand...

Using those numbers the 4 cf box is a bit small, if you are after moderately rich bass: Qtc 0.59, F3 107 Hz. Are you sure those are the right TS parameters?

The Eminence Alpha 10a yields a Qtc of 0.86 and an F3 of 80.5 Hz.

The Dayton PA255-8 yields a Qtc of 0.66 and an F3 of 80.1 Hz.

The Eminence Legend BP102-8 yields a Qtc of 0.68 and an F3 of 69.6 Hz.

The Faital 10FE200-8 yields a Qtc of 0.88 and an F3 of 75 Hz.

Ultimately, there is much more to tone than the bass. If you want some highs you probably should consider the response of these drivers through the upper mids and highs. For smooth highs the Faital wins hands down. For added presence and overdrive/distortion consider the Alpha 10a. For a good all-rounder, consider the Dayton. For deep bass, the BP102. The Faital and Alpha 10a will produce the highest max volume.

If you use much bass boost, all of these can be blown by your GK, but the SBX 15 will probably go first.
 
#11
AstroSonic said:
Using those numbers the 4 cf box is a bit small, if you are after moderately rich bass: Qtc 0.59, F3 107 Hz. Are you sure those are the right TS parameters?

The Eminence Alpha 10a yields a Qtc of 0.86 and an F3 of 80.5 Hz.

The Dayton PA255-8 yields a Qtc of 0.66 and an F3 of 80.1 Hz.

The Eminence Legend BP102-8 yields a Qtc of 0.68 and an F3 of 69.6 Hz.

The Faital 10FE200-8 yields a Qtc of 0.88 and an F3 of 75 Hz.

Ultimately, there is much more to tone than the bass. If you want some highs you probably should consider the response of these drivers through the upper mids and highs. For smooth highs the Faital wins hands down. For added presence and overdrive/distortion consider the Alpha 10a. For a good all-rounder, consider the Dayton. For deep bass, the BP102. The Faital and Alpha 10a will produce the highest max volume.

If you use much bass boost, all of these can be blown by your GK, but the SBX 15 will probably go first.
Click to expand...


these are the T/S that the seller sent me. from searching around, i think these drivers are from a Goliath IV. i cant find the cabinet specs, but the Goliath 1 was a 4 cu ft box with 20 sq in of port area. would the goliath IV be similar in size? ive never come across one. from what i can find Goliath 1 thru III used PAS drivers, so these must be from a IV.
 
#12
the goliath I thru III seem to be all 4 cu ft cabs with 20 sq. in ports. they all used PAS drivers. the IV was the first to use Eminence drivers from what i can dig up. i think they probably retained the cabinet volume, but does anyone know what the port volume is on the IV's?

i guess i would have to add a port to my SBX to use these drivers.
 
#13
heres another stupid question. the golight 410 8 ohm cabinet spec says that it is loaded with 16 ohm neo's. how do they wire it to get 8ohms? is it a stereo cab? i can get the 16 ohm neo's as well if thats a viable option.

if i wire the Neo's for 16 ohm and run it parrallel with my SBX15 @ 8 ohms, then i get a total load of 5.33 ohms. my RB700 is 480 watts into 4 ohms.



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SWR Golight Series – golight 410 8 Ohm




golight4108_mid.jpg



The SWR Goliath™ Series created the modern standard for bass instrument sound reproduction. Now the same painstaking attention to detail has been applied to our line of professional neodymium speaker enclosures – the golight™ series.

These high-quality, lightweight enclosures are the result of a painstaking process in which every component of our Goliath Series was evaluated and, whenever possible, a new lightweight high-performance component was selected for use in our golight enclosures. This model features a 4x10 enclosure, 800 watts handling, custom SWR neodymium speakers, horn tweeter with attenuator, Speakon® and 1/4" speaker jacks, removable casters, side handles, vibration-free shock-mounted grill, front slot port. 25.4kg impedance: 8 ohms.


Specifications

Model Number
441-5500-800

Type
Bass Speaker Enclosure

Power Handling
800 Watts RMS

Impedance
8 ohms

Frequency Response
105 dB SPL @ 1W1M (-3dB @ 40Hz and 15KHz)

Speakers
(4) Custom-Designed SWR 10", 16 ohm Neodymium Drivers Manufactured by Eminence®, P/N 0078006000
(1) Foster® Horn, P/N 0048847000

Controls
High Frequency Attenuator

Dimensions
Height: 64.1 cm
Width: 58.4 cm
Depth: 46.7 cm

Weight
25.4 kg

Covering
Grey Ozite Carpet Covering with Black Stamped Steel Vibration-Free Grille

Accessories
Removable Casters P/N 0056483000

Cover
Uses Cover P/N 0066171000 (Not included)

Features
Specially-Tuned Bottom Front Slot Port for Focused Bass Response • Spring Loaded Rubber Grip Handles • Grey Ozite Carpeting with Stack Lock Corners • Black Heavy Duty Stamped Steel Shock-Mounted Vibration-Free Grill • High Quality Metal Input Panel with Heavy-Duty Attenuator • Two 1/4" and Two Speakon® Speaker Input/Output Jacks • Horn Protection Circuit • Removable Casters •
 
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#14
zook250 said:
the goliath I thru III seem to be all 4 cu ft cabs with 20 sq. in ports. they all used PAS drivers. the IV was the first to use Eminence drivers from what i can dig up. i think they probably retained the cabinet volume, but does anyone know what the port volume is on the IV's?

i guess i would have to add a port to my SBX to use these drivers.
Click to expand...

The Goliath IV was 5+ cf, and slot loaded on the front. Modeling suggests that the Eminence/SWR drivers need more box volume - 1.5 cf per driver looks good.
 
#15
AstroSonic said:
The Goliath IV was 5+ cf, and slot loaded on the front. Modeling suggests that the Eminence/SWR drivers need more box volume - 1.5 cf per driver looks good.
Click to expand...
so , another option would be to add a 5" extension to bottom of the cabinet and utilize the bottom 5" x 23" as a port. i can wield around wood working equipment pretty good. 5" x 15 1/2" x21 1/4" will give me .958 cu ft. maybe i just build a new box, i am only doing this for the "Duff" look on stage. crazy.

or pick a different damn driver lol.
 
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#19
Good day Curt,

VERY, VERY, VERY INTERESTING thread, and the timing couldn't be better. Just about every other post I came across was singing praises about the Eminence BP102 speakers, but I came across this thread after researching replacement speakers for my beloved SWR Goliath II 4x10. I reached out to Eminence, and they said the Eminence Legend CA10-8 was a better replacement, and more suited for my SWR Goliath II vs the BP102.:wideyed::woot:

When I stumbled upon the SWR Replacements from "Speaker Addict" on eBay, I asked them what Eminence model these were, and they said they were "Very Similar" to the Eminence Legend CA10-8....hmmm. This is the 2nd time I'm hearing about the Legend CA10-8 speakers in the same week. WOW...okay cool...thanks.

Moving forward to this thread, I now have a few questions here;
  1. What was the packaging like for these replacements? I'm asking because I was a bit curious of how they were stored since the guys at Speaker Addict said they got a truckload of these liquidated speakers from SWR/Fender when Fender acquired SWR. They didn't give a date, but I do know that was some years ago to have speakers laying around in a warehouse, storage unit, etc. I'm not even sure that it makes a difference, or not, but it just seems like a long time for speakers to just sit in boxes. They're in factory boxes, and they're clean & new is what they told me. I'm asking you because you're a Customer, and not a Seller, so your opinion can help me/others who might come across this thread.
  2. I'm primarily a 5 string player, and the low end is VERY IMPORTANT to me, that's why I was leaning towards the BP102 from all the rave reviews on a few different websites, including TalkBass. Having said that, are you satisfied with the low end of these SWR Replacements even-though the frequency response on the BP102 is lower than the CA10-8, & these? On paper that would mean that the CA10-8 can't go down as low as the BP102. Do you have any issues at all in the low end department?
  3. Will these have to be rewired different, or are these a direct replacement in the 8 ohm Goliath II Cabinet? I've been doing some homework for replacement speakers for the Goliath II, and I only get more confused when I'm seeing comments about wiring in series vs parallel in order for it to be an 8 ohm cabinet. Pardon my ignorance here, but the Goliath II is already an 8 ohm cabinet from the factory, so I just want to be able to swap speakers without any headaches about wiring.

    Please advise if you ran into any rewiring issues for these as a replacement for your Goliath....my goal is to have the Goliath II remain an 8 ohm cabinet as it is right now by installing these 8 ohm speakers. I'd just like to swap out old speakers, screw front grill on cabinet...KEEP ON JAMMING!!!:bassist:
Thank you Curt (and anyone else) for your time in reading this, and your forthcoming response(s).
 

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