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Speaker with the highest sensitivity?

#41
Downunderwonder said:
Do you often witness power compression or nearly always?
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Always, the threshold will be different for different drivers and rating methodology but it's always there. This is why being a little conservative powering speakers is not such a big deal, you are throwing away very little SPL for much greater longevity.
 
#42
Downunderwonder said:
Do you often witness power compression or nearly always?
Click to expand...

All speakers will suffer from compression at some point, just some have higher limits than others. An example would be when you're playing a set and you have your rig turned up, making the speakers "work" a bit and it starts to sound a little quieter, more "compressed" towards the end of the set. Some of that is your ears adjusting to the volume exposure, some is speaker compression. The continuous build up of heat over time and the voice coils can't get rid of it as fast as you're putting it in.

Take a break and come back and things sound a little louder and more "open" again. Some of that is your ears relaxing from the volume, and some is the speakers cooling off. They'll behave differently than they did at the end of the previous set.

Agedhorse brings up some good points about high power testing being needed to expose non linear behaviors and real world limits of these speakers. Last I checked, I don't have a lab around here, nor the budget to go destroying speakers to see what they'll take, I leave that to those guys.:D

So, when looking at 1w/1m charts and thermal and mechanical specs and box designs and stuff, and start adding up how much could this thing take, how loud could I make it go, I just simply stop counting at 1/2 the rated continuous power handling figuring that last 3db will be lost to compression.

Not 100% scientifically accurate I know, but it seems to work pretty well, for me at least, to look at speakers "on paper" and compare that to what they actually act like out in the real world, on a gig.
 
#43
iualum said:
Here…

http://www.usspeaker.com/homepage.htm

1st you need to decide on the basic frequency range you're looking for. Do you want full range? Are you going to use a mid driver and/or tweeter?

Then you need to consider 3 things from my perspective when considering loudness. Sensitivity is one. The other two are Xmax & cone surface area.

Then, of course, after driver selection, a box needs to be constructed around the driver(s). A quality box will allow the driver(s) to perform at the top of their ability. An inferior one will limit that performance.

Happy hunting.
Click to expand...

IMO, there's lots more that apply to designing a loudspeaker.

The FIRST question to ask is how large can the enclosure be, how loud and how low do you need to go. From there, the rest of the variables and driver choice can be determined... things like low mid and midrange voicing (which may be at odds with loud and low), weight, etc.
 
#44
agedhorse said:
IMO, there's lots more that apply to designing a loudspeaker.

The FIRST question to ask is how large can the enclosure be, how loud and how low do you need to go. From there, the rest of the variables and driver choice can be determined... things like low mid and midrange voicing (which may be at odds with loud and low), weight, etc.
Click to expand...

The OP mentioned nothing about box size. He said nothing about weight. He simply asked about sensitivity (& indirectly, loudness).
 
#48
It is definitely rather complicated. I like to try to figure out one parameter at a time to avoid confusing myself too much. Of course, since they are often interdependent, one can't really consider them in isolation. At least it makes it easy to decide what to consider next. :D

Agedhorse, I get what you meant about small vs large signal. I'm used to the small signal model since that's what tends to come out of a guitar. With the large signal there's a whole lot more to worry about. I suppose it's a matter of deciding what is and isn't worth considering. You do seem to get a lot more flexibility with a multi-way system, so I see why those come highly recommended; the speakers help fill in each others weak points.
 
#49
Derek Balonek said:
You do seem to get a lot more flexibility with a multi-way system, so I see why those come highly recommended; the speakers help fill in each others weak points.
Click to expand...

kinda like this system back in the mid-70s when amps weren't as powerful as they are now:

elp1974caljam.jpg
 
#50
Cool stuff. I heard from someone that speakers used to be more efficient but they aim for better power handling these days. I know watts are cheap now, but I kind of like the idea of a low wattage head that can get decent volume with the right cabs. Actually that was why I started this thread. I was going to make a simple class a amp; ~5 watts or so and wanted to see how loud I could get it.
 
#51
agedhorse said:
Always, the threshold will be different for different drivers and rating methodology but it's always there. This is why being a little conservative powering speakers is not such a big deal, you are throwing away very little SPL for much greater longevity.
Click to expand...
That was what I thought but you used "often" in your roundup of power compression, making me wonder what drivers stay linear until melt down.
 
#53
Derek Balonek said:
Actually that was why I started this thread. I was going to make a simple class a amp; ~5 watts or so and wanted to see how loud I could get it.
Click to expand...

You'd be surprised how loud 5 watts of Class A tube power can be if you use high efficiency drivers like the JBLs, EVs, or Altecs (15").

Used to plug an old Fender VibroChamp into either a single EVM-15B or two JBLs for practice or even acoustic jams with an acoustic guitar and hand percussion.
 
#54
My Valve Jr. cranks pretty good too.

With a 5 watt amp, your max spl would be about 4-5db more than what a 1w/1m chart shows. So, if you find one that reaches deep enough for you in a cab model, you could use it. It doesn't need to handle much power down there, just reach deep enough. Still consider it's performance in the rest of the bandwidth as well. Something with a whole lot of uppermid/treble response can sound pretty shy in the bass, even though the bass response is in there. It isn't always less bass, it's more of everything else that makes it sound like less bass by comparison.

Example, 95db is pretty appreciable output in the lower frequencies, but if it's upper frequencies are hitting 105 in a fairly wide slice of bandwidth and not just a narrow peak, it'll sound pretty weak in the bass.
 
#55
Probably pretty awesome sounding. I've heard the valve jr is a good amp after mods.

I have a small chip amp (1/2W clean, maybe 1W dirty) and it got some decent volume through a weak 8" speaker, so I figure something better would be good for quieter shows.

If I have a small stereo amp, I think I could keep the frequencies balanced just by making sure the gain was matched right. I'd prefer biamp over a passive crossover since there are less losses; it would be a waste of the powerful drivers.
 
#56
Derek Balonek said:
Actually that was why I started this thread. I was going to make a simple class a amp; ~5 watts or so and wanted to see how loud I could get it.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a fun idea, off the shelf and easy to obtain 15" speaker
with high sensitivity and a little more highend than a legend is a
Delta Pro 15A
101.6 dB should be good for 130 to 140 watts in 3 to 4 cubic.
Since your going low wattage you could even just keep it sealed.

If your building a low watt tube amp, due to the cost of the iron.
I would just build a class AB 30 to 50watt 6L6 pair. I dont know what tube or amp you plan on using. But the overall cost of building a single ended 5watt is almost the same as building a low watt push pull pair. And the 6l6 is much better for bass use than the common tubes used in class A designs.
*edit* opps! didnt see your previous post before I posted.
 
#58
I really liked Alex Claber's (of Barefaced) little schematic about SPL's and cab type. Copied from one of his BGM articles. Great reading. I like thinking in terms of actual SPL output, at least as a starting point for apples-to-apples.

BGM55Jun2010.png


OP, if you do make this little amp, I for one would love to follow a build thread, if you're up for it. ;)
 
#59
Bogeybass, I may do a push-pull set up. Depending on biasing, they are still class a, as both devices conduct for the full cycle. It would make transformer choice easier since there isn't any DC in the windings. I was thinking of MOSFET or even power JFET amp to mess with using current feedback/ defined output impedance. I was considering a scaled down version of Nelson Pass's Zen amp.

dhsierra, I am rather fond of that site. It's where I've learned a lot of what I know. I keep rereading the articles and I get something new every time.

astack, I think I have Alex's articles saved somewhere. I definitely need to look over them again. He knows quite a bit. I don't know when this rig will happen. I'm trying to get all the details in order first. Most of the time I just throw things together, but I'm sure the results will be better with proper planning. Don't know how much I'll spend on it, I assume it will cost quite a bit if I want to do it right.
 
#60
iualum said:
The OP mentioned nothing about box size. He said nothing about weight. He simply asked about sensitivity (& indirectly, loudness).
Click to expand...

Box size (and porting) directly affects the sensitivity curve and most certainly the choice of driver that may or may not work in that box.

The point I am trying to make is that every one of these variables interact and there is no single simplified answer to the sensitivity question without discussing the very things that impact sensitivity.
 

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