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Splitters

KingRazor

KingRazor

Jun 4, 2010
6,747
415
37
Beaverton, Oregon USA
#1
So we have an interesting setup for sound at my church.

We use a digital board with a pair of digital snakes. The gain knob on the board controls the output at the snake, so the outputs from the snake are all post-gain.

This makes it so every time we adjust the gain at the board, it changes the volume in everyone's ears/wedges.

I just recently realized that there could be an easy way around this: splitters.

Right now our wired vocal mics hook up straight to the digital snakes, but if there was a splitter that had one send to the snake and one send to the IEM board on stage.

The question is, what should I be looking for to accomplish this?

Something like this?

ART S8 | Sweetwater.com

What about for instruments like keyboards?
 
#2
Worst case scenario, we would need splitters for all of the following:

12 wired mics (two vocal, two guitar amp mics, eight drum mics)
4 wireless mics
1 bass (it's already going through a DI, so I think we already have the signal for it split)
2 keyboards (also have DI boxes, may not need additional splitting, I need to double check our setup)
 
#4

What musicman said. We used one of these splitter snakes at our church and it worked fine. You could probably get by with a 16-channel model by setting up a couple of extra "ambient" mics for the drums dedicated to the monitor mix. There’s no need for multi-mic, per-drum mixing for monitors.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt



Administrator, Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club
Big Cabs Club #23
Pedulla Club #45


 
#5
With the setup you have it's the best way to do it.
Except if you need preamps for your monitoring purpose.

What's important in isolated splitters are transformers.

I made one myself , 12 channels with Neutrik trany (good , not the best) the whole project cost me 500$

The ART looks nice , it won't break the bank but I don't know if they are any good.


One thought : If your band /setup is fix or doesn't move much you shouldn't play with the trim at all.
 
#7
I own the ART for live recording use. I like it. As it is passive, you loose input gain so your channel input gains need to run hotter than usual but it is transformer isolated so it very quiet. Get one from American Musical Supply and use their 45 day return plan to evaluate it would be my suggestion.
 
#9

It’s functionally the same thing as the splitter snake musicman linked; 16 of them will set you back nearly $200. Just keep in mind that if you end up having to replace your existing mic cables with a slew of longer ones in order to use them, it might be cheaper to buy the splitter snake.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt



Administrator, Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club
Big Cabs Club #23
Pedulla Club #45

 
#12
You don't have pre-gain monitor sends on each channel? I am trained on an old analog board, but I'm used to each channel having a master gain then a monitor send, then a fader controlling the feed to the mains. I'm confused about what you're changing and why. Can you lay out the signal path a little more clearly?
 
#13
Balog said:
You don't have pre-gain monitor sends on each channel? I am trained on an old analog board, but I'm used to each channel having a master gain then a monitor send, then a fader controlling the feed to the mains. I'm confused about what you're changing and why. Can you lay out the signal path a little more clearly?
Click to expand...

That's exactly what he has. He appears to be in the habit of fiddling with the micamp mid set.

I would suggest having some discipline and getting the gain staging figured out but dude appears to be mostly interested in throwing money at his problems. This is not the first time we have seen this.
 
#14
Balog said:
You don't have pre-gain monitor sends on each channel? I am trained on an old analog board, but I'm used to each channel having a master gain then a monitor send, then a fader controlling the feed to the mains. I'm confused about what you're changing and why. Can you lay out the signal path a little more clearly?
Click to expand...

The monitor sends cannot be pre-gain. The gain knob on the board affects the sensitivity at the snake, so it affects the volume of that channel everywhere.
 
#15
projectMalamute said:
That's exactly what he has. He appears to be in the habit of fiddling with the micamp mid set.

I would suggest having some discipline and getting the gain staging figured out but dude appears to be mostly interested in throwing money at his problems. This is not the first time we have seen this.
Click to expand...

Umm, excuse me? You obviously don't understand my situation at all. Don't talk about me like I'm some sort of stubborn idiot when you don't even know the facts. I find this post extremely offensive.

I'll try to spell it out for you:

The Roland M-400 Digital mixer [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] and the S-1608 digital snakes [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] act as one unit. When you adjust the main channel input gain knob on the board, it affects the gain level everywhere for that channel everywhere in the system. The channels cannot be set to pre-gain. If you want to ask why, send Roland Systems Group an email, I'm not the one who designed it.

You absolutely cannot mix with this board without adjusting the gain. When you turn up the fader from unity to +10, it isn't always enough to give you the volume you need. Or, sometimes the signal will be hotter than usual and you wind up having to turn the gain down to avoid clipping.

Every person at my church that uses that board is aware of this and we all adjust the gain on the board every service because that's how this board was designed.

What I'm looking for is a solution that will allow us to have a pre-gain send to the monitors so that my routine gain adjustments don't affect everyone's in-ears. Some mic-splitters would do the trick.
 
#16
KingRazor said:
The monitor sends cannot be pre-gain. The gain knob on the board affects the sensitivity at the snake, so it affects the volume of that channel everywhere.
Click to expand...

Right, that's how all boards are isn't it?

Sounds check, X instrument plays. Adjust gain to proper levels, adjust monitor mixes as needed. Boom, done. Move on to next instrument. Adjust monitor mixes as need after full band starts up.

I really don't see the problem here.
 
#17
Balog said:
Right, that's how all boards are isn't it?

Sounds check, X instrument plays. Adjust gain to proper levels, adjust monitor mixes as needed. Boom, done. Move on to next instrument. Adjust monitor mixes as need after full band starts up.

I really don't see the problem here.
Click to expand...

I often have to adjust gain during the songs.

On our old Mackie I almost never touched the gain knobs. The faders gave me all the volume boost/cut that I needed. But on this board even if I max out the fader I don't always get enough volume. On the other hand, I can't set the gain too high or it'll clip.
 
#18
KingRazor said:
I often have to adjust gain during the songs.

On our old Mackie I almost never touched the gain knobs. The faders gave me all the volume boost/cut that I needed. But on this board even if I max out the fader I don't always get enough volume. On the other hand, I can't set the gain too high or it'll clip.
Click to expand...

Either the band sucks and can't maintain semi-stable levels within a song, or you're doing it wrong. Either way fancy tech won't help.
 

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