Psst... Ready to join TalkBass and start posting, make new friends, sell your gear, and more?  Register your free account in 30 seconds.

Splitting pickups

Discussion in 'Pickups & Electronics [BG]' started by mahrous, Oct 26, 2005.


  1. mahrous

    mahrous

    Aug 13, 2005
    Egypt
    ok, i am about to order a set of pups for the 6strings neck thru bass i am building.

    i am not too sure which of these three pickups would work best for me

    they are all Delano's soapbars:
    quoting his email 'The basic sound is the same as the SBC 6 HE. Because of the option (pre wired) of "cross coil using" you have a
    natural single coil sound wihout hum.'

    ok so i have these three options
    the SBC6 HE/S http://www.delano.de/english/ct41.html
    the SBC6 HE/S-4 http://www.delano.de/english/ct45.html
    and the Soapstick which is not available on their website but i have its description written in his OEM Price List:
    6 String Twin coil in-line humcanceller pickup

    the S-4 pickup is cost 50% more than the other two pickups which are the same price. i just need to know if that price difference is justified or not.

    i was initially building a single pickup bass but since Duncan have sent me information to reconfigure their preamp, i can use two pups now. i am looking for maximum tonal varieties here with the Duncan 3 Band Tone Circuit.
    the HE/S and Soapsticks, can they be operated in Series/Parallel/Single? if not, how can they be operated?
     
    Mongo Slade likes this.
  2. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    FWIW:

    If the s-4 only has 4 leads, the only advantage to it will be humbucking in a "singel coil" mode. You can effectively do the same thing with the other pups by wiring a single coil from each pup together (either inner or outer) and so have single coil humbcking.

    Any HB with 4 leads can be wired series/parallel/single and those links stated as much and gave a diagram.

    I think you meant soapbar not soapstick - unless Delano has put a cute spin on a title for a pair of slim line pups. Those are all soapbar pups listed in those links.
     
  3. mahrous

    mahrous

    Aug 13, 2005
    Egypt
    no they are Soapsticks. they are code named JSBC and description: Soapstick Pickups.

    as i said, they are not on his website but are available on his OEM Price List of 2005.

    for humbucking in a single coil mode. does this require me soldering extra wires to the coils of the pickup and then sending those wires to my DPDT switch?
    As i quoted part of his email above, those pickups are already sounding like a natural single coil without hum, so i really dont need that S-4 option to operate them in single coil right?

    another point:
    are Soapsticks good in terms of performance in general. i know its a rule that the wider the pickups, the more it can sense the string vibrations and the better its output is.
    for Soapsticks, i dont believe i can split it and operate it in Single Coil mode as it is "Twin Coil in-line humcanceller pickup". if i split it, i will be using only the coil that is position under the BEA strings without the DGC. is this correct?

    thanks for the replies!
     
  4. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    Second diagram in this link:
    http://bartolini.net/instructions/pickups/passive/switching/Switch_Wiring_DualCoil_Pickups4_cond.pdf

    I suppose it depends on the single coil their referencing but the only humbucking pup I've had so far that put out a quality vintage Fender single J tone was an SD classic stack. Even hum-canceling singles I don't find have the clarity and edge of a true single coil. That's in 75+ sets of pups. Never had a Delano though, so maybe. But in my experience, with one exception, if you take out the hum you take out some tone with it.

    That Delano soaps don't split a coil (and so split the strings), more accurately, it can be wired to only use one of the two coils, each of which covers all the strings. As I saying, you can't even do that with their s-4 quad coil because it has each pair of coils hardwired. It would have to be an 8 lead pup to actually split the strings. Soapsicks don't know about and I'd never heard of before now.

    Otherwise, the Dimarzio model J, Dimarzio Ultra Jazz, Schaller double J, and any 4 lead split P (like Dimarzio Model P) are the only pups I know that you can actually split the strings on for whatever reason if you want. Any any eight lead quad of course.
     
  5. mahrous

    mahrous

    Aug 13, 2005
    Egypt
    i am not really intersted in splitting strings.

    i just want a set of pickups that i can wire each one in Series/Parallel and Single. and i can wire both pickups Single/Parallel. so i will have 2 On/On/On Switches and 1 On/On switch on my bass along with whatever setup i will have for my Basslines/Aguilar preamp (still havent decided which one i will use yet).

    so knowing what i need above, am i completely forced to buy the more expensive S-4 pickups?
     
  6. mahrous

    mahrous

    Aug 13, 2005
    Egypt
    i dont see any 6strings pickups from DiMarzio. this is a 6strings Neck Thru single cutaway bass.
     
  7. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    FWIW:

    No, as I stated before, the s-4 quad pup offers nothing the humbucking pickup doesn't - except you may get hum in the humbucker when you split (single out one coil) it becuase you are only using one coil so it won't be humbucking in single mode unless you wire it like the Bart diagram.

    That's what the pup itself will do. Whatever switching you're going to need for the setup, aside from one for splitting coils and one for series/parallel, I don't know. And there are 4 pole switches that you could probably combine both those into one. Switches give me a headache and I don't mess with them unless I have to.

    I also don't know about 6 string pups. I only play 4's and is pretty much all I know about. I mentioned the Dimarzios, etc, as reference for splitting strings. There are threads on 6 string pups that can be found through a TB search.
     
  8. mahrous

    mahrous

    Aug 13, 2005
    Egypt
    so in a nutshell, the S-4 extra cash is unjustified?


    i think i will go for the soapsticks, they look cooler and give me more space on the body.

    thanx for the help!
     
  9. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    In a nutshell, that's my opinion - in terms of wiring options anyway. The only way to know what, if any difference, in tone there is would be to buy them both and find out.

    Personally, if I was building a bass I'd route out the entire section below the strings and fashion a pickgaurd to cover for whatever configuration I ended up sticking in it. You can't know what any given set of pups will sound like in a bass till they're installed. The best looking bass in the world is useless if the tone sucks. On an NT, if you route for the soapsticks and the tone sucks you're SOL cuase the fingerboard will be in the way for re-routing. Plus with an open routing, you'd have the option to locate the pups wherever you wanted (ie. where they sound best). You'd also have the option to change to different pups at any time without changing basses and only need to fashion a new pickgaurd.

    Then again, personally, I wouldn't build a NT bass to begin with.

    Your bass and your choices but just some feedback from a different perspective.
     
  10. mahrous

    mahrous

    Aug 13, 2005
    Egypt
    why wouldnt you build a neck thru?

    the bass is gonna have a pretty nice top. i wouldnt wanna cover it with some cheap pickguard.
     
  11. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    1) In my limited experience, I don't like NT tone: compressed, dull sounding.

    I've had a Chec Spec with active EMG PJ's, Carvin LB 70 with stock pups, and a Schec Elite with Bart M34 soaps. In addition to that, the majority of post I've read on TB support that experience.

    2) In my limited experience swapping necks, 90% of the acoustic tone of a bass is the neck. In 4 neck swaps, the tone of the bass followed the neck including one from bright to thumper. I've gotten concensus on that from the TB luthiers forum when I posted the question.

    3) An NT is permanent and any shortcomings in construction are there to stay.

    4) You can swap BO's, you cant NT'S - A plus for damaged neck, tone aleration, whatever.

    The only consistent advantage to NT constuction I have found is they consistently have more sustain. But no more than I've gotten from some pickups in a bolt-on. At any rate, you can get all the sustain you want electronically.

    For me, looks aren't even on my list of priorities but you could always make a wooden pickgaurd to match just like you can match wooden pup covers to the face. For that matter, with a veneered top, you could cut a pup route rectangle out for the pup routing and use it for the cover and inlay the saw cut to match or compliment as desired. Wouldn't take a lot of creativity to come up with something appealing that would accomplish both a practical and esthetic approach.
     
  12. mahrous

    mahrous

    Aug 13, 2005
    Egypt
    i will stick to my original design for now. its not the first and it definitely wont be the last.

    i will be building lots of basses. i havent seen a SingleCut bolt on before! will have to look into that and find out if its possible or not.

    thanx for the comments though!
     
  13. mahrous

    mahrous

    Aug 13, 2005
    Egypt
    this is the reply from Delano answering the questions i had:

    Hi,
    you are not complete right. The JSBC series is a twin coil in line pickup, -two coils side by side- it's a kind of j-bass type.
    One coil for B, E, A, one coil for D, G, C. There is no possibility and no need for a 4-conducter cabe.
    The SBC are soapbar pickups. The SBC HE/S are standard dual coil Humbucker. One coil (front) B,E,A,D,G,C, one coil rear B, E, A, D, G,C
    A 4-conductor cable makes it possible to use it in series/ parallel or single coil mode.
    The SBC HE/S-4 is a quad coil pickup. This makes it possible to use also a cross coil "single coil", means , single coil sound without hum.
    the single coil section is pre wired to B,E, A coil rear, D, G, C coil front.
    Shipping to Ulm Einsingen is no problem, paying by check or transfer to our Bank acount.
    Delivery by end of November is no problem.

    Best regards
    Reinhard


    i guess that explains it all!
     
  14. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    FWIW:

    so their sbc-4 is wired so single coil mode is effectively a split P pup, the coils are not humbucking in line but staggered.
     
  15. mahrous

    mahrous

    Aug 13, 2005
    Egypt
    i guess so but that will give me more of a Pbass sound rather than a Jazz bass :( right?

    in that case, i think i will get the SBC-4 for the neck (to have that PBass sound up there) and the SBC for the bridge to get that jazz bass down there!
     
  16. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    FWIW:

    no, it just means the pup reads the strings like a split P (and should read it like a reverse split P as well since it's 4 lead). In as much, my guess is that's the sound they were shooting for but they would be the ones to answer that. At any rate, even if they designed it for a P tone that doesn't mean it will necessarrily sound like it.

    I've gotten far superior P tone from bridge mounted pups (Bongo, SD Steve Bailey Fretless J, Vintage Fender J, probably DM Model J, that come to mind) than any P pup mounted P position that I've had to date. You really don't know till you try. That's just the nature of pups.
     
  17. mahrous

    mahrous

    Aug 13, 2005
    Egypt
    i still dont feel like shelling out 50 extra Euros for a pair of pups just for the trial.

    i think i will go for the SBC without the quad coil!