Hopkins
Commercial User
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Squier/Fender truss rods revisited
- Thread starter lovethegrowl
- Start date
The same as my lo riders. When I bought the 6 string Ibanez I put very light gauges of Fat Beams & Hibeams with the assumption that they would facilitate faster technique & a Stanley Clarke vibrato (that wammi bar didn't even help that) & I assumed wrong. As I didn't like the way they sounded & as I worked my way up to higher gauges I found that they had more "bounce" (both hands, plucking & fingering!) & helped me play faster as well as sounding better. I Also like to go as close to "balanced" tension as possible.
So in terms of having a bass I plan to keep & play, choosing my string gauges to coddle a weak neck/truss rod isn't on my agenda. Now making the bass sellable is another issue.
I was enthusiastic about unloading this bass at a huge loss because I have limited room & originally only planned on 3 (not 4) basses: (poor man's versions) John Patatucci Marcus Miller & Jaco basses.
Today Mo (@ Nordstrands) texted me & about how good the sound of the bass came out after bypassing that horrible on board preamp. Apparently his coworkers even came to the door & peaked in to see what he was playing. I heard it today & it's very impressive--like a real serious instrument. Strong, open, not dark as one associated basswood. Maybe a little too much treble ping but those low Ryder's are brand new.
So Hopkins, in another thread you wrote 'if I don't like the sound don't blame the basswood'. I have to concede you had a point--though if I hadn't switched from Hibeams to Lo Riders the articulation would not be hard enough (using the Ash/maple MM bass as a reference.) The single biggest factor in the sound was that inferior Squier preamp.
For a while I had those same Carvins mounted on my Ibanez & the sound was even worse. Today I also had Mo remove the Ibanez preamp. I suspect when I have a chance to plug in & try it that I will perceive as equally a great transformation.
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So I am going to have a saddle removed from the Wammi bridge & reinstall that stock plastic nut, then see how the neck & truss rod hold up minus the c string. If it looks like there enough stability & headroom to be sure the neck will stay straight, I will later do a fret dressing & have new TUSQ nut made.
It's sounds too good to discard. My rationale is I can't sell it for even half of what $$ I put in; one extra string is only 5 semi tones; and going back to the original 19mm bridge spacing is more conducive to slap technique (I didn't factor that in when I originally shot for a 15mm spacing for 6 strings) & I don't have a "slap" bass with a B string (I have little time to learn slap though--cuz I am always learning new tunes with my group.)
It's sounds too good to discard. My rationale is I can't sell it for even half of what $$ I put in; one extra string is only 5 semi tones; and going back to the original 19mm bridge spacing is more conducive to slap technique (I didn't factor that in when I originally shot for a 15mm spacing for 6 strings) & I don't have a "slap" bass with a B string (I have little time to learn slap though--cuz I am always learning new tunes with my group.)
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Hopkins
Commercial User
At least according to the D'Addario tension chart, which I am sure DR is pretty close, removing that C strings will cut the overall string tension by 38 lbs. So between 35 and 40 +/- a few pounds could very well help that neck. I hear you about the Lo-Riders, they are my string of choice. The tone and tension are absolutely perfect as far as I am concerned.
Tell me Hopkins were those VMs salvageable with a FB reshaping & refretting? Or did they have to be scrapped?
Even going back to a 5 string I have cause for concern. Also, I have to worry now about that new 30" SX fretless I added a c string to.
Hopkins
Commercial User
Most were fine with a fret level. Only one of them was bad enough that releveling the board was necessary, the owner decided to just replace the neck.
After a long "grace"period I will bring the bass back to be converted back to a 5 stringer. Would it help to loosen the truss rod & let it settle?
Here's a layman's opinion.
If it were my plank and I was not going to be playing it for a long time (strings will be coming off anyway in anticipation of reconfiguring) I'd remove the strings and release all truss rod tension. The neck, if made well, should then be absolutely die straight. You'd also know what you've actually got to work with.
I don't know if a neck gets a "set" after a while, but I think it would reset itself without other influences such as string tension, truss rod tension, and gravity acting upon it.
Again, a layman's opinion only.
If it were my plank and I was not going to be playing it for a long time (strings will be coming off anyway in anticipation of reconfiguring) I'd remove the strings and release all truss rod tension. The neck, if made well, should then be absolutely die straight. You'd also know what you've actually got to work with.
I don't know if a neck gets a "set" after a while, but I think it would reset itself without other influences such as string tension, truss rod tension, and gravity acting upon it.
Again, a layman's opinion only.
I have the squier 5 and 4 and Mo did a good job on mine, but he's right, they don't have outright terrible necks, but you can't expect miracles. I personally like medium action and I'm not afraid of a little buzz so he barely had to touch my neck to get it in a nice playable spot. I spent about 200$ a piece on the 300$ basses to get them set up perfectly for me. Pups, pre, nut, and tuners. It sounds like you've got a pimped out Honda Civic there. The strings I like for lower tension are the hi beams. They help keep the action manageable. It sounds like you need a custom build. Mods can only do so much I guess.
Thanx. With the lo riders passive pots, & j99a's the sound is Ferrari. Very surprising. But the neck? Pimped out Honda Civic. When I went for 15mm spacing I didn't account for slap anyway. Back to 19mm.
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This is why Hartley Peavey went to the 2 piece necks for Peavey guitars.....2 pieces glued together with grain running opposite directions will not twist as easily as 1 piece.
We learned this in wood shop back in the early 70's.....causes less problems with multi wood pieces glued together over the years.
That doesn't mean Peavey necks don't need trussrod adjustments, they do but you rarely see the 2 piece USA Peavey necks twist.
I have seen several vintage Fender necks with a twist and own 1 Gibson 6 string guitar with a severe neck twist.
Twisted necks are something I have rarely seen on Japan guitars as well.
The modern USA Fenders seem to have very good quality necks in this regard from what I have gathered.
We learned this in wood shop back in the early 70's.....causes less problems with multi wood pieces glued together over the years.
That doesn't mean Peavey necks don't need trussrod adjustments, they do but you rarely see the 2 piece USA Peavey necks twist.
I have seen several vintage Fender necks with a twist and own 1 Gibson 6 string guitar with a severe neck twist.
Twisted necks are something I have rarely seen on Japan guitars as well.
The modern USA Fenders seem to have very good quality necks in this regard from what I have gathered.
Ironic, my Ibanez SR 406's neck has 3 sections & 2 truss rods. However, because it is as thin as a Rickenbacker, it tends to be pretty noodley.
It did have TI Jazz Rounds on it & someone in Sound gear club who also had super light gauge recommended a heavier string to force more effort from the truss rod & give it a chance to stabilize. The point is, his Ibby neck became stable after getting rid of his slinky gauges & going to "normal" strings. Is that sound logic?
My Ibby is gonna be my new pimped up 6 string now. I am trying out pickups, & will take the TIs off, & put those ol Riders on.
It did have TI Jazz Rounds on it & someone in Sound gear club who also had super light gauge recommended a heavier string to force more effort from the truss rod & give it a chance to stabilize. The point is, his Ibby neck became stable after getting rid of his slinky gauges & going to "normal" strings. Is that sound logic?
My Ibby is gonna be my new pimped up 6 string now. I am trying out pickups, & will take the TIs off, & put those ol Riders on.
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Yes but those DJAVs have very wide necks relative to other Fender 5 strings. I am curious, Fender made a 6 string Steve Bailey Jazz bass. I wonder about THAT neck, truss rod, etc.
Also Mo speaks of the dry weather we have here in SoCal, & often says that TB readers don't realize how that effects bass necks when the humidity hits. He says he has no more time for TB discussions.
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See, I never was sure how a multi-ply neck compared in overall strength and tone to something like the Peavey USA necks that were basically 2 pieces glued together with opposing grain directions.
I know that properly done multi-ply wood is very strong...such as high grade plywood with many layers glued together....but how does it affect tone for a guitar neck?
My SR800 Ibanez is I think reinforced with graphite in the neck.....it is quite solid even tuned down quite low to a C#.
Yes, that's similar to a pre-stressed beam (or actually is one), instead of just the neck wood handling the minimal string tension, (which will wobble back and forth sympathetically, while the relatively unstressed trussrod just lays there). Conversely, the higher tension from a heavier string gauge requires the trussrod(s) (behind the fingerboard) to fight the string tension (in front of the fingerboard) making a 'pre-stressed' unit which resists flexing from the string's excursion better than just the wood.
More like a box than a sheet.
Bopkoms
The action is low & those gauge Fatbeams sound & feel even better than the low riders. The bass sounds great as the sonic problem was the cheap Squier active electronics (now passive) not the basswood body. Also the ebanol neck is very hard & that helps the sound, the attack isn't so "feathery" now.
The Bass is on Mo's bench for a frett level that adds relief to the neck (by taking off more near the top & bottom & washers will be added to the truss rod I'm case the neck continues warping we'll have headway. So it's still a 6 stringer & that makes me happy
Hopkins I took your advice using Fatbeams 120 100 80 60 40 25. The neck straightened right out
The action is low & those gauge Fatbeams sound & feel even better than the low riders. The bass sounds great as the sonic problem was the cheap Squier active electronics (now passive) not the basswood body. Also the ebanol neck is very hard & that helps the sound, the attack isn't so "feathery" now.
The Bass is on Mo's bench for a frett level that adds relief to the neck (by taking off more near the top & bottom & washers will be added to the truss rod I'm case the neck continues warping we'll have headway. So it's still a 6 stringer & that makes me happy
