Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Squier Models Disappearing ??
- Thread starter tubatodd
- Start date
Piano's N'Stuff in Pittsburgh had a Fender and a Squier VM Mustang when I was there a couple weeks ago. Maybe you can order one at your local store. I cant imagine GC, MF or Sweetwater not being able to get you one even if its on back order.
Fender's issue has nothing to do with not offering the right colors or options. Fender's issue is they're making their $300 instruments as good as (if TalkBass members are to be believed) their $1,000 instruments. Or at least close enough that $1,000 instruments aren't worth the price to enough people.
Result: they're sabotaging their own business. There simply aren't enough customers to generate a healthy profit if they're selling too many $300 instruments and not enough $1,000 instruments. They would be smart to cut back on the Squier line to try to push customers upmarket.
^ Won't work. Most people will shop elsewhere, rather than be "pushed upmarket."
The people who want MIA are those who want that extra 10% of quality for a 70% price increase, or those who believe buying local is better (for ethical/economic reasons). People who have $400 to spend on a bass are not going to spend $1000. That's not a thing.
The people who want MIA are those who want that extra 10% of quality for a 70% price increase, or those who believe buying local is better (for ethical/economic reasons). People who have $400 to spend on a bass are not going to spend $1000. That's not a thing.
I must respectfully disagree, but please bear with me on this. I'm gonna go out on a limb since I'm not affiliated with Fender/Squier in any way (save for being a customer), nor do I have any inside information on their inner workings. This is just my take on them upping their game in the entry-level market alongside the tightening-up of their cross-the-board quality control.
I believe FMIC creating a quality product at an affordable level is an investment for the future.
If lil' Johnny (age 12) says, "Mommy…Daddy…I wanna learn to play guitar!" (or bass or whatever) Mommy/Daddy help lil' Johnny in some way (allowance, chores, selling papers, birthday, Christmas, rewards for good grades, etc…) to get a Squier instrument off the rack at a local store, along with gear, a set-up and all that jazz.
Now, for the sake of the argument, let's assume lil' Johnny doesn't lose interest, sticks with and excels at playing his instrument of choice.
Here's what I suspect Fender is banking on; If lil' Johnny has something well-made in his hands as he's learning his craft, and the time has come for not-so-lil' Johnny to step-up his gear-game, FMIC is betting he'll look to the company that did good by him when he was just a beginner. And if that instrument was utter crap…and I mean a fussy, unplayable turd…he will likely, even more than before, look elsewhere for his future upgrade to a higher-quality instrument.
[climbs up onto his soapbox]
I may not have an M.B.A. from some ivy league school, but I did have a long-term tenure with a certain video rental chain that has practically gone the way of the dodo bird. From this experience, I can say honestly say…
Smart business looks, not just to the bottom line of that year or two, but to the distant future of the enterprise!
Shortsighted decisions and hack-&-slash production cuts in the name of "efficiency" (which often translates into "short-term profits, followed by long-term infrastructure damage") are the hallmark of modern CEO's. Unfortunately, and all-too-often, their interest in a company only goes as far as the length of their contract and the size of their golden parachute. They have no investment in the long-term survival and prosperity of a company, only something to polish their resume so they can jump ship to another CEO position somewhere else.
If the previous company flourishes, they can brag about it's success, even if they had nothing to do with it. If it sinks, they can claim it happened after they left the company and is no reflection on their performance.
[/soapbox]
This is a perception based on personal experience. I own an MIA Fender. It's the nicest Fender I own... by about 10%-15%. Not as nice as my Dean Zelinsky that I got factory direct for $550.
I agree with this entirely, in theory. BUT in reality...what seems to be happening (based on what I read on this forum) is lil' Johnny learns to play the bass, grows up, gets a good-paying job (or great gigs), and becomes active in a great online forum where he loves to talk about gear. But despite now being an adult with some disposable income to spend, instead of going upmarket with, say, an MIA P-Bass for $1,200, he instead prefers the $300 Squire Vintage Modified, because hey, it's just as good as the MIA but a quarter of the price! I mean, who wants or needs an "extra 10% of quality for a 70% price increase" per ninjaaron's previous post?
You can see how this could be a very bad thing for Fender.
The computer electronics business has played out in a similar manner over time. Companies like Dell and HP thought it a good idea to build market share/brand share by constantly cutting the price of their consumer-level products to the bone. Result: those new price points became the new expectation. No one wanted to spend $2,000 on an HP computer when they could get an HP computer for $600.
You'll note the most financially successful computer electronics business in the world (Apple) avoided this dead-end trap entirely by never jumping into the shallow end of the pool. You want an Apple? Great. You will pay a premium for it. You want a cheap computer/phone? Go talk to Dell or Samsung.
$300 Squires that are "comparable" to $1,200 Fenders only kill Fender's brand and business. Squier cannibalizes Fender sales. And that's not good when Squier are much-lower-profit products.
I don't disagree with your perception, I'm just arguing that it's this perception that is a Fender-killer. Fender should be very worried that this is how people view their products and brand.
All good points.
I personally think that the vast majority of people who buy a bass, are thinking it might be cool for them (or their offspring) to try.
Because they aren't sure how it will go, they don't want to spend a lot of money on it.
After diddling with it for a while, they discover it's not as easy as they thought it would be, and that's the end of it.
Some discover that it comes naturally, or at least fairly easily, or it's something they want to continue even if they have to really work at it.
A small percentage of those will decide they want to take it to the gigging level - either full or part time.
A small percentage of those will actually make it.
The rest make their living in other ways, and if their income is sufficient and they stay interested in playing bass,
they will be among 'those who want that extra 10% of quality for a 70% price increase'.
Also, as stated, there are some who will only buy 'American Made', and are willing to pay a premium for it.
I personally think that the vast majority of people who buy a bass, are thinking it might be cool for them (or their offspring) to try.
Because they aren't sure how it will go, they don't want to spend a lot of money on it.
After diddling with it for a while, they discover it's not as easy as they thought it would be, and that's the end of it.
Some discover that it comes naturally, or at least fairly easily, or it's something they want to continue even if they have to really work at it.
A small percentage of those will decide they want to take it to the gigging level - either full or part time.
A small percentage of those will actually make it.
The rest make their living in other ways, and if their income is sufficient and they stay interested in playing bass,
they will be among 'those who want that extra 10% of quality for a 70% price increase'.
Also, as stated, there are some who will only buy 'American Made', and are willing to pay a premium for it.
Last edited:
Most places still seem to have the Mikey Way, and the Pawn Shop Mustangs.
I'm not sure how well the pickups would drop into that humbucker hole though.
I don't like that big silver sparkle finish on the MW either.
Seems like it'd be a pain to strip it though.
I never intended to get into this discussion, but it serves me right.
Anyways, I will offer my same point of view that I have in the last (insert # here) of threads about this...
I personally own 2 Squier basses, and have recommended/loaned them to friends, who have also purchased Squier instruments (mainly guitars, but basses also).
Until a few years ago, the consensus (at least this is what I am told) was to stay clear of Squier, and look for things like Ibanez that offered better quality at the same price.
I personally have no intention of purchasing a Fender in the near future, nor would I have purchased Fenders instead of the Squiers if the Squiers weren't as good as they are. Most of the people I recommended them to probably feel the same, but let's say half of them to keep it fair.
So according to your perfect business plan, Fender would have been much better to have not had the Squiers available, which means they would have sold a minimum of 13 instruments less just to a small group of people that I know in a no name Spanish town?
I would be willing to bet that the USED bass market takes mores sales from brand new MIA Fenders than $300 Squiers do. There may be a few people who bought a Squier over an MIA, but I doubt the vast majority who bought the Squier were ever going to spend $1200 on a bass in the first place.
Probably, to be honest - I've bought a number of Squiers brand new (including a CV this month that I wasn't expecting), but my MIA P was second hand.
It's a lot harder to justify spending £500 or more extra on a new American Standard vs buying used, than it is to justify spending £100-150 more on a new Squier, at least to me.
That's where I would be looking for an MIA.
Also, when you get into MIA price range, there are other options opening up for Fender-style basses - Skylines, G&L's, Carvins, Zon MOJO, etc. Fender has a tough market to sell MIAs in.
Not real interested in pursuing the rabbit-trail of Fender's business model etc. But I actually am thinking about the OP, and disappearing instruments. I think that we've got some pretty poor communication from Fender and Squier with the public on the issue of old models and discontinuation. There's plenty of fanfare over a new model coming out but nothing on other changes to the lineup. There wouldn't have been all this panicked (or gloating) speculation over a website redesign if the company would have put up an announcement about what they were actually doing. "Hi, welcome to our new website! Here are the changes we've made..." Some models just disappear from the sites without any announcement that they're being discontinued, or without a "discontinued models" page to consult for info on them. Others linger on the website, giving the impression that they're still available, when no retailer anywhere, real or virtual, actually has one for sale.
It's a very common scenario. The web developers were told six months ago to put up a page for the Squier VM Mustang. No one from production or distribution has since told them anything different, so there it is. Left hand not knowing what the right is doing.
I like the silver sparkle, I just don't like the EMG bucker.
As for fitting a standard Mustang p-up in there, that's easy. Foam padding underneath for support (usually the same kind that comes in pick-up boxes) and the standard pick-guard to line them up.
I wish that were the case around my neck of the woods. Canada, in general, is dominated by Long & McQuade & they only carry whatever Yorkville brings over the border. So, no Spector, Lakland, G&L, Schecter, etc. Fenders, EBMMs, Yamahas, Godins, Ibanez, PRS & Gibson as far as the eye can see. Most of the smaller shops in my area do mostly consignment...so there's nothing out there.
One local shop carries G&L, Dingwall & Cort but they rarely ever stock any, favoring to stock the Warwicks that hang on their walls for years.
