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Squished Dually?

kurosawa

kurosawa

Jan 27, 2001
1,561
42
York County, Virginia
#1
Well I saw the news about neo going up, so I bought a pair of 15PR400s (cheaper than 3015s). Now my prob is squishing a cab into my Cobalt's trunk. I have a 115 that fits but really I need a 215. The opening will allow a cab 13" deep (actually 13.25" is absolute max and I have to bend the rear seat releases out of the way) and max 32" tall. Was wondering if a Dually can be squished roughly like this, getting proper cab volume by making it wider? Would this hurt the sound?
 

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#2
kurosawa said:
Well I saw the news about neo going up, so I bought a pair of 15PR400s (cheaper than 3015s). Now my prob is squishing a cab into my Cobalt's trunk. I have a 115 that fits but really I need a 215. The opening will allow a cab 13" deep (actually 13.25" is absolute max and I have to bend the rear seat releases out of the way) and max 32" tall. Was wondering if a Dually can be squished roughly like this, getting proper cab volume by making it wider? Would this hurt the sound?
Click to expand...

Seems like a question for the Authorized builders of Greenboy's designs over on his forum. No one will be giving you plans/interior dimensions/porting info, since these are not publicly available plans.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#7
It would narrow horizontal dispersion by almost 1/2 and introduce comb filtering where you can hear it, meaning a smeared sound compared to the vertical alignment. Sort of negates the whole design.

See if some combination of a single 15/6, 1212/6, 12/6+12sub, or the "cube" varieties of those will fit your trunk space. Otherwise consider DIY'ing a regular 212 using HO's or a compact 215 for your Faitals. The 215 would lose some lowend extension for being compact. Have to make your own tradeoff decision there. The 212 would likely still have enough box to keep it's lowend.
 
#8
will33 said:
It would narrow horizontal dispersion by almost 1/2 and introduce comb filtering where you can hear it, meaning a smeared sound compared to the vertical alignment. Sort of negates the whole design.

See if some combination of a single 15/6, 1212/6, 12/6+12sub, or the "cube" varieties of those will fit your trunk space. Otherwise consider DIY'ing a regular 212 using HO's or a compact 215 for your Faitals. The 215 would lose some lowend extension for being compact. Have to make your own tradeoff decision there. The 212 would likely still have enough box to keep it's lowend.
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+1

If you are patient, I think there is a Dually 212 coming down the pipe from greenboy as well.
 
#9
CL400Peavey said:
And since neither of them frequent this forum anymore, if you want an answer from a designer or builder it is best to ask on their forums.
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You are correct, Sir.

Bill has left the building altogether, and Greenboy no longer frequents TB on a regular basis, mostly fed up with the trolling and some of the general attitudes.

Although, I know that Greenboy and all the Authorized Builders DO hang out on Greenboy's forums...sometimes it takes a bit for a reply as a smaller forum doesn't see as much action.
 
#10
It might be worth looking into an Audiokinesis TC115 as well. Those are quite small and VERY loud, since most of the higher-volume fEarful/Greenboy solutions are relatively large (excluding the 12/6 variants). My TC112 generally holds up well in gigs where I used to bring a 2x12, and the 115 apparently does reasonably well in gigs where you'd expect to bring a 4x10.
 
#11
Your 13" depth isn't going to be enough for most designs. Could try to diy something that would fit making up the size in width. Maybe squeeze in your 15's along the 32" dimension but likely come up a little short. Likely end up with a better system moving to high perf. 12's.
 
#12
IntrepidCellist said:
It might be worth looking into an Audiokinesis TC115 as well. Those are quite small and VERY loud, since most of the higher-volume fEarful/Greenboy solutions are relatively large (excluding the 12/6 variants). My TC112 generally holds up well in gigs where I used to bring a 2x12, and the 115 apparently does reasonably well in gigs where you'd expect to bring a 4x10.
Click to expand...

Yep! And the Baer cabs are worth considering, too.

I'm running a pair of Baer ML112 cabs, driven by an Aggie TH500. It's the best-sounding rig I've ever had, and I'm an old cat who's been through a ton of gear.

There are very informative threads about both the Audiokinesis and Baer cabs right here on TB.
 
#13
kurosawa said:
The Q is whether the basic idea works or not.
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No.

Running the numbers, this driver requires 3.55 cubic feet each.
With two of your dimensions specified, you require approximately 29" width as the 3rd dimension.

Can you build a pair of 1x15 instead?
One in the passenger seat, the other in the trunk?
This is a lot easier to do, plus you could build the box to the proper size.
 
#14
Thanks bgavin. Yes, I think I can get a 32 1/2 x 28 5/8 x 13" cab into the trunk (the reason I say 32.5" is I assume the cab walls are 3/4" thick, if I can get 1/2" walls with composites, maybe I can achieve my target 32"). The question is whether the cab will be stiff enough with the speaker rims touching each other and the cabinet walls. The baffle board will be very thin at those points. Other ways I can get a 32" length is to shave 1/8" off each speaker frame on opposite sides, or rebate a small section of the cab wall edge by 1/4" at top and bottom to receive the frames (if the walls stick out). I have asked these questions over there and rec'd no answer. I hope I get one, because the AIMS amps want to see 5 ohms, and I am stuck with a pair of 15PR400 that I bought for the project, one 3015, and one EVM15B, all 8 ohms.

I want to record the answers for the questions I asked and DID receive answers for, so anyone who reads this far in this thread for these answers can learn what can't be done:

1. Re the pic: Diagonals suck.

2. Re using 2 stacked uuu12s (I can fit 2 of these in my trunk): No. The cab was designed for light weight. The impedance curve is unfriendly to tube amps.

3. Re the Cobalt 2-dr: Only Yakima makes a car top rack for it, and due to the way the roof is built (also the Pontiac and Saturn counterparts) you have to settle for only 16" between rack pipes. This sounds very unstable. A 215 cab would have to go ACROSS the roof, and the basic rack new costs over $300. It can be pieced together from used and new parts but will likely cost $200. The Yakima extension kit, which allows a much greater stretch between pipes, will not work on the Cobalt 2-dr. If you have a Cobalt 4-dr, no prob, you get 34" between pipes, no need for the extension kit.
 
#15
bgavin said:
No.

Running the numbers, this driver requires 3.55 cubic feet each.
With two of your dimensions specified, you require approximately 29" width as the 3rd dimension.

Can you build a pair of 1x15 instead?
One in the passenger seat, the other in the trunk?
This is a lot easier to do, plus you could build the box to the proper size.
Click to expand...

If I could give up the seat in the back, yes, a pair of Bassic 115 cabs would work. I saw a figure of 30 lb there, so a pair would be 60 lb as opposed to Mike Arnopol's lovely 40-lb Dually. I would, however, always have to use both cabs so the output transformer would see the 5 ohms it wants to see. The amp is robust, but it has to be, because it's pushing a pair of 6550As to 102 WRMS. This solution amounts to splitting a 215 into 2 pieces without adding the flexibility of being able to use just one by itself.

I am getting close to dumping the 3 tube amps and 4 drivers and a cab and thinking out a solid state rig, I'm that fed up.
 
#16
a Dually is what it is. Change the dimensions and it's not a Dually.
And you know the numbers have been crunched to get the most out of the drivers. You can't do better.

Build two separate fEarfull cabs, one in the trunk will do for most gigs.

Winisd will do Isobaric designs. You end up with a small cab if you're determined to use both drivers. Winisd will also so you the expect SPL compared to regular 2x15 cab. There are some big tradeoffs - don't do it.
 
#17
With an isobaric, you can expect it to be -6dB down from the equivalent pair in standard configuration.
Both are wired in parallel, but the isobaric output is the same as a single driver.
You really have to want that 1.9 cubic feet internal volume, and be willing to trade away the SPL.

There is no reason to avoid 1/2" baltic birch for a 2x15.
With some modest bracing it will do the job at a lighter weight than 3/4" material.
I don't enjoy big boxes, so I build small ones for myself using 3/8" BB. Works great.
 
#18
Is everyone saying if I change the proportions of a Dually it will suck? I don't want to build a cab anyway. Well let me see what I'm left with:

1. Ashdown VS212-200. What should I think of the VS series? They're the only cabs Ashdown won't publish performance specs on. Feh.

2. Pair of EA Wizzy 12 or M-Line 12. I thought these were for upright players. And I've always been leery of designs for uprights. The specs look good enough, but the pages that explain 'em look like the label on a bottle of Dr Bronner's Peppermint Soap. Maybe.

3. Back to a 115...
 
#19
Take a look at JohnK_10's DIY cab build thread. Very interesting read in any case:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/custom-diy-2x15-cab-build-854517/

He did two cabs, one with a pair of 3015's and one with a pair with the 15PR400s. His dimensions are, quoting from his thread:

the cab's outer dims are 24.5"Wx36"Hx14"D, but since the speakers are front loaded the internal volume is 5.3 cu ft. i haven't cut the port tubes to length yet but in order to tune it to 45hz (which is where i think i want it) they should be 3.26" long. when i tested it, it was tuned to 42.85Hz since the ports are 3.9" long right now
Click to expand...

Seems so close to what you need, but I know you have restrictions. One thing is that his 14" depth includes a baffle offset, maybe an inch or so (dunno maybe it's somewhere in the thread). Key here is one could probably make it 13 with no baffle offset and use round external grilles and keep the same internal volume. Don't know if that would work for you or not.

Overall, with the diagonal arrangement would it be optimal? No. Would it absolutely suck? I doubt it. Everything is a tradeoff and you have to work within your constraints. Also, remember you can rear port it instead if that helps with the layout as well.

The other thing is, if you read John's comparisons between both versions of his cab, you'll see that he found the Faital's to be noticeably more efficient than the 3015's. If your amp can do 8 ohms, a 1x15 with one of the Faital's would be a nice cabinet. If you can't do the 8 ohms, maybe you can exchange the Faitals, or at least one for a 4 ohm version which are also available.
 

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