I'm going to start standing. I'm convinced. By the way, anyone ever tried this? Invalid Link Removed Looks like you request to them your endpin hight, and then they bend the actual endpin for you - no hole drilling or anything. How does this compare to the Laborie/Rabbath style endpin?
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Double Bass Stability While Standing
- Thread starter moopants
- Start date
I've wanted to atleast try that endpin, but I feel like the idea of such a great mass of steel would take away so much sound.
Ive experimented quite a lot with making my own. The endpin on that link looks very short, I think thats used for sitting down unless the player is extremely short.
If you want to stand, the pin needs to be larger and 10 mm solid steel is still too springy. Plus I really dont like the amount of force being applied to the endpin plug at that angle.
How good are your fabrication skills? I built a fibreglass one, and it works great. Just goes into the standard plug. So if I ever change my mind about the angle in the future its not permanent like the laborie.
Simply bending a metal endpin like that and putting it in the same slot seems dangerous to me, especially if you have a heavy bass. I would love to try a bent endpin if they could devise some sort of non-permanent support. I'm not ready to take that plunge yet to drill holes in my bass.
You can try the KC Strings "tilt block" system - it doesn't involve drilling holes in your bass.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
very ingenious. i hadn't seen that before but it's a great solution. personally, the straight endpin works fine for me, so i see no reason to switch. still, if it helps you play better then it's the right thing to do...
It should feel just about the same compared to a laborie endpin, the only difference is the Laborie sounds better because it is made out of wood. If you're serious about trying out this endpin you should definitely get a teacher who's very familiar with the Rabbath system so they can guide you to knowing how to hold the bass correctly and making sure the bass is at a good height for you.
One more difference will be the weight distribution. The Laborie endpins drill a hole directly into the block and closer towards the edge of the bass and stick the endpin directly into that hole. If you simply bend and endpin from the regular entry point in the center you're going to have much more weight leaning back towards you than if you had a properly mounted Laborie\Rabbath style setup.
Thanks. I just started studying with Paul Ellison, who studied with Rabbath, so he knows all the Rabbath-isms well. I think I might buy a bent endpin shaft for my current bass (which isn't very good). I will upgrade to a nice bass hopefully in the near future, so I think I'll get it drilled for the real deal then.
- Nov 17, 2009
- 19
- 29
- Disclosures
- Trevor M Davis Basses, Robertson and Sons Violins
The bass should be held in a fashion that permits it to resonate as freely as possible while allowing access to left and right hand needs. The right hand must be able to bow without hitting any bouts or corners, adjust the endpin accordingly. The left hand must be able to access the entire fingerboard without "adverse" (or excessive...unnatural...) wrist bending. Two solutions are effective, one is similar to cello technique where the weight of the left hand (and right with the bow) are used to facilitate dexterity, this is most effective when seated as this involves adding more weight to the strings of the bass....support is required.
The other is interesting and very effective. Stand upright (not like a primate!) in a solid stance, feet shoulder width apart and with the weight of your body seated between the tripod like fulcrum of each foot (the foot tripod; the ball, the heal and the pinky toe side), be aware of where your weight is and make it comfortable (many people don't even know how to stand in a comfortable position, regardless of what they're doing!). The bass will contact your body at two points (besides the strings...) the back edge of the upper bout rests on your hip bone...this is the fulcrum. The back edge of the lower bout rests on your left knee (move the bass into this position, not your body, you should be standing comfortably upright). The fingerboard is very "up and down", perpindicular to the ground. This creates a slight "roll" forward that is stopped (or controlled) by your left knee (the hip being the fulcrum). This essentially uses the weight of the instrument to depress strings with the left hand and "dig in" with the right as the instrument sits in the left hand and under the fingers with virtually no effort; the thumb is free, the wrist is beautifully natural throughout all registers, the instrument has all of its major resonating surfaces (the top, back and sides...the sides actually do make a very big difference) and you are moving fluidly and in balance with the instrument. This technique is to thank for countless (painless) 6 hour gigs back to back on a regular basis! It has been effective for the classical etudes I work on at home and the various genres I perform on the bandstand on a regular basis. I believe this to be the proper "upright" technique; the Rabbath...are adapted (and highly effective) cello techniques. Do what makes you sound good and keeps you out of pain!
The other is interesting and very effective. Stand upright (not like a primate!) in a solid stance, feet shoulder width apart and with the weight of your body seated between the tripod like fulcrum of each foot (the foot tripod; the ball, the heal and the pinky toe side), be aware of where your weight is and make it comfortable (many people don't even know how to stand in a comfortable position, regardless of what they're doing!). The bass will contact your body at two points (besides the strings...) the back edge of the upper bout rests on your hip bone...this is the fulcrum. The back edge of the lower bout rests on your left knee (move the bass into this position, not your body, you should be standing comfortably upright). The fingerboard is very "up and down", perpindicular to the ground. This creates a slight "roll" forward that is stopped (or controlled) by your left knee (the hip being the fulcrum). This essentially uses the weight of the instrument to depress strings with the left hand and "dig in" with the right as the instrument sits in the left hand and under the fingers with virtually no effort; the thumb is free, the wrist is beautifully natural throughout all registers, the instrument has all of its major resonating surfaces (the top, back and sides...the sides actually do make a very big difference) and you are moving fluidly and in balance with the instrument. This technique is to thank for countless (painless) 6 hour gigs back to back on a regular basis! It has been effective for the classical etudes I work on at home and the various genres I perform on the bandstand on a regular basis. I believe this to be the proper "upright" technique; the Rabbath...are adapted (and highly effective) cello techniques. Do what makes you sound good and keeps you out of pain!
hi there lowerechelon
the second method you've described is exactly how my teacher taught me. i've heard that others describe it, too, including Rabbath and Karr, Rufus Reid, Streicher.
not sure what "fulcrum" means in the various ways you are using it. can you explain that in a bit more detail?
Bill
the second method you've described is exactly how my teacher taught me. i've heard that others describe it, too, including Rabbath and Karr, Rufus Reid, Streicher.
not sure what "fulcrum" means in the various ways you are using it. can you explain that in a bit more detail?
Bill
- Nov 17, 2009
- 19
- 29
- Disclosures
- Trevor M Davis Basses, Robertson and Sons Violins
Fulcrum refers to the center of balance or pivot point. At the hip where the instrument's back edge of the upper bout rests and in your feet where your bodies weight is centered to the ground.
thanks. fulcrum= pivot point. that's what i thought you meant, wasn't sure, because while one can bend at the hip, as to the feet it would be center or balance point. but no matter. tripod. understood.
actually, i am surprized that no one so far in this thread described the standing position so well. maybe it is self-understood for many, at least Don H would have done so. good standing posture that permits good playing technique isn't necessarily a given, known by all bassists.
and it is so important to stand correctly!
but i guess there are many ways to do that. there was a link mentioned, http://doublebassblog.org/2008/05/standing-versus-sitting-for-the-double-bassist.html where so many standing positions are described. is there really only one that is correct or "good" or healthy? maybe it's like he says, you have to find what works best for you...
Bill
ps. it would be nice for others reading your posts if you would fill in your profile, location, bass info, music info, etc.
actually, i am surprized that no one so far in this thread described the standing position so well. maybe it is self-understood for many, at least Don H would have done so. good standing posture that permits good playing technique isn't necessarily a given, known by all bassists.
and it is so important to stand correctly!
but i guess there are many ways to do that. there was a link mentioned, http://doublebassblog.org/2008/05/standing-versus-sitting-for-the-double-bassist.html where so many standing positions are described. is there really only one that is correct or "good" or healthy? maybe it's like he says, you have to find what works best for you...
Bill
ps. it would be nice for others reading your posts if you would fill in your profile, location, bass info, music info, etc.
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
The whole post was very good, and the end of it (quoted above for emphasis) is the real bottom line.
The same logic should be observed in choosing between German and French bows.
With the bass being such a non-standardized instrument, there is very little that can be considered the 'correct' way to do things. Just watch videos of the top 5 or 10 players in the world and see what a HUGE difference is in their stances, their bow grips. and their overall playstyle.
No. What matters is how you do whatever you choose to do. What I've said before is that by my observation, the majority of players who sit do so in a self-destructive manner, regardless of their level of competence as bassists.
Not to be glib or wise-ass, but no, except in generalities that are so broad as to be not really helpful.
J.E. Goldthwaite, former president of the American Orthopedic Assocition, said "An individual is in the best of health only when the body is so used that there is no strain on any of its parts...the joints, the bones, the ligaments, the muscles or any other structures."
Anybody can say "sit up straight" or "don't tense your neck." Learning how not to is what I teach experientially; words and pictures can't do it.
If you follow up on what we discussed by PMs, you can be my witness.
PS:
The efficacy of the Alexander Technique in reducing back pain was reported in the British Medical Journal.
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