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Stage Lighting Question..Need Some Input

jive1

jive1

Commercial User
Jan 16, 2003
12,525
4,060
55
Alexandria,VA
www.jivesound.com
Disclosures
Owner/Retailer: Jive Sound
#1
I've been using a pair of Chauvet 4Bars for a while, and I'm mostly pleased with them. Good amount of light, easy to setup and haul. But, I'm in the ever continuing quest to save time and space, so I'm considering replacing them with wash lights that stand on the floor. The reasoning is that it's two less stands that will take up space on stage, and the main goal is to light the stage with them, not necessarily individual performers. It'll take up less space on stage and for transport. There will still be a light behind the drummer facing the audience, so there will be some backlighting.

So right now, we have 3 stands. One behind the drummer that has effects lights and/or lights that face the audience. There are 2 stands, one on each side with a 4Bar (basically 4 par 34s). I'd like to replace the 4Bars for some gigs with smaller stages with floor mounted wash lights. Here's some options I'm considering:
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American DJ Homepage.

Does anyone think that any of these lights, or any type of floor mounted light can light the stage effectively?
 
#2
I don't know anything about the individual systems, but here's what I would be concerned about; with a floor-mounted light, the beam projects upward, and that is going to mean two things. First of all, the performers are lit from underneath, so you'll have that kind of halloween effect like when you shine a flashlight up your face from under your chin. The more you can project the light horizontally, the less severe this effect will be, but that means stage space to set the light at a distance from the performers and it doesn't sound like you're thinking about playing on large stages.

The other thing is shadows; a light shining downward on a performer means only a limited shadow being cast, from the point the light hits the performer's head to the floor next to them. But if the light beam is pointed horizontally, or upward, that shadow projects clear across the stage and you lose a lot of the light you're putting out.

Dancers use a lot of horizontal lighting from the sides of the stage because lights in that position highlight the outlines of their bodies, which is a good effect for a dance act. Actors normally use a lot of face lighting -- ideally from 45 degrees above and 45 degrees to the side -- so that the audience can see them talking. Musicians, you need face lighting at least on your singer -- people will want to see them sing. The rest of the band can be highlighted from behind or the side if you don't care about people seeing their faces.

Basically, at the end of the day, if you want the audience to see naturally-lit faces, you need lights up high and out in front. If you're happy with a lighting plan that's a little more highlighted bodies and lots of shadows, you can go with lower lights. At least, that's my opinion, though it's been a while since I've worked with this and others may have better ideas.
 
#6
hrodbert696 said:
I don't know anything about the individual systems, but here's what I would be concerned about; with a floor-mounted light, the beam projects upward, and that is going to mean two things. First of all, the performers are lit from underneath, so you'll have that kind of halloween effect like when you shine a flashlight up your face from under your chin. The more you can project the light horizontally, the less severe this effect will be, but that means stage space to set the light at a distance from the performers and it doesn't sound like you're thinking about playing on large stages.

The other thing is shadows; a light shining downward on a performer means only a limited shadow being cast, from the point the light hits the performer's head to the floor next to them. But if the light beam is pointed horizontally, or upward, that shadow projects clear across the stage and you lose a lot of the light you're putting out.

Dancers use a lot of horizontal lighting from the sides of the stage because lights in that position highlight the outlines of their bodies, which is a good effect for a dance act. Actors normally use a lot of face lighting -- ideally from 45 degrees above and 45 degrees to the side -- so that the audience can see them talking. Musicians, you need face lighting at least on your singer -- people will want to see them sing. The rest of the band can be highlighted from behind or the side if you don't care about people seeing their faces.

Basically, at the end of the day, if you want the audience to see naturally-lit faces, you need lights up high and out in front. If you're happy with a lighting plan that's a little more highlighted bodies and lots of shadows, you can go with lower lights. At least, that's my opinion, though it's been a while since I've worked with this and others may have better ideas.
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Lots of good points here. I still want the audience to see faces, and in as flattering way as possible.

I do still plan to use lights from the back to fill in the shadows, but not sure how that will do for the faces.
 
#7
I wouldn't use the Multiflood because the color mixing won't work very well up close. The Chauvet & American DJ products are pretty similiar but the American DJ version is RGBW and the Chauvet is just RGB so the American DJ verson will give you a little better color in the pastel range and a cleaner white (if that matters). . Everyting that hrodbert696 said about angles & shadows is true so maybe you could put 2 of these on top of your speakers & shine them down because they both have a pretty narrow vertical spread so you could look like a group of headless horsemen if you light from the floor.
 
#8
jive1 said:
They hit me in the eyes on stands too.
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Get used to it or play with your faces in the dark. If the lights aren't in your eyes your faces are not lit so an audience can see you. I've been a lighting guy for 25 years and there is no way around this.

Leave your fixtures in the air. Floor lighting by itself is a kinda creepy effect that sooner or later will irritate audiences and probably bar managers. You're already using the bare minimum...what would you tell a guy who wanted to do bar gigs with a 75w 1x10 combo because his 45lb neo cab and 3lb 400w class D amp were "too heavy"? Really dude. :rollno: If you're not careful I'll start telling stories about radio tower truss and steel par cans that would catch your hair on fire on a small corner stage.

And you need both front and back light if you want to be seen in 3D.
 
#9
face3_1614362i.jpg
 
#11
jive1 said:
They hit me in the eyes on stands too.
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What I meant was that I usually look down and into an audience when I'm playing. When the lights are above me they don't really bother me or get in my eyes all that much because I'm not looking 'up' most of the night. By comparison, if I had something on the floor (more or less the direction I'm looking most the time) the light is much more likely to get in my eyes.
 
#12
jeff arddun said:
Get used to it or play with your faces in the dark. If the lights aren't in your eyes your faces are not lit so an audience can see you. I've been a lighting guy for 25 years and there is no way around this.

Leave your fixtures in the air. Floor lighting by itself is a kinda creepy effect that sooner or later will irritate audiences and probably bar managers. You're already using the bare minimum...what would you tell a guy who wanted to do bar gigs with a 75w 1x10 combo because his 45lb neo cab and 3lb 400w class D amp were "too heavy"? Really dude. :rollno: If you're not careful I'll start telling stories about radio tower truss and steel par cans that would catch your hair on fire on a small corner stage.

And you need both front and back light if you want to be seen in 3D.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input, but no need to roll your eyes. I came up in the days of par cans, and am near sighted from burned retinas with a lingering tan from it.;) I get your amp analogy. Yes, it's great that I have two trees of lighting that fit in something the size of a guitar case. Much better than the bulkier cans and chase controllers from just a few years ago. But, I drive a little Subaru hatchback that miraculously carries a relatively robust PA, 2 light trees, and my rig. I'd like to add some backlighting, like some washes or effects, and it's gonna be hard to fit in an already cramped car. Not planning on getting a new car either. So, the goal is to downsize where I can to fit in a cramped car and stage. Right now we use the minimum for lighting, and I'd like to do a little more.

Maybe, I might use an LED panel on a stand or mounted on the speakers. I dunno. So far it doesn't seem like doing fixtures on the floor will work out.
 
#16
We use LED panels (Chauvet Techno-sumfin? Pretty small and lightweight, almost no power consumption - 12 watts each!) for the fronts, mounted to the top of the PA. 2 panels on each side. I keep the pairs wired all the time, so I don't have to rewired everything every set-up. Works pretty well. A little programming of the controller goes a loooong way towards making it look good. I have a foot controller, and 16 different scenes set up, so the stage lighting is pretty dynamic.

I wouldn't do the floor lighting either, it just looks crappy, and gets very annoying (and a bit dangerous) when you can't see the floor very well because the lights are shining up into your eyes.
 
#17
I think it's a wash (pardon the pun). You think you're saving stage space, but now you have something to potentially trip over (or get effed with by a patron). Plus, as Munjubunga so illustratively noted, you got the possible Halloween effect.

BTW, we use two 4BARS and two small spots and haven't had any problems.
 
#19
Don't forget it's all a function of your age. If you are old like me, you will need extra lights, a personal trainer, a wardrobe consultant and a plastic surgeon to achieve pop star stage status.

Under 40 year old Korean fat guys who can do country music and have hot female singers may be exempt though. We may have to start a new thread on that to be completely sure.
 
#20
Nagrom said:
I'm thinking about mod'ing my pole boxes so the 4Bars can mount on top of the speakers, thus eliminating the 2 light stands. I've got a couple of ideas so far, but no prototypes. What do you think?
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Ive been doing that for years. I drilled a hole in the back corner of the sub boxes, then some bracing on the inside bottome corner. I just slide the pole into the cab and it is very stable and takes zero floor space. Actually that was how i used to do it. I built my own sub cabs last year and they mount the same way but outside the box.
 

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