Stage Space?

[buldog5151bass]

Not sure how you would share "equally" with a drummer or a keyboardist. I have no issues with their equipment, but it is bigger, so I'm not sure how "equal" works here.

Personally I can get away with 4x4 and don't feel that is excessive.

You might want to spend a little more time getting your equipment in place?

Any reason the guitarist doesn't help the drummer too?

By equally, I meant as needed. Of course a drummer (and generally a keyboardist) will need more space.

 

[LuckyScott]

I learned a long time ago, don't get mad, get it handled. Tell the drummer to move his poopie over a couple feet. People really are not used to someone getting in their face and telling them what to do. If you speak up, they usually do what you ask.

 

[bumperbass]

I believe he demands a 4x4 space to let it be known he deserves the same amount of space as everybody else, and maybe deserves a little respect, too.

 

[richntiff]

I think 4x4 is about the absolute minimum - and I won’t be dancing and jumping around lol. That being said - “demanding” 16 sf is a DB move IMO....

 

[TheDirtyLowDown]

In our smaller venues I'm usually jammed up against the high-hat side of the drum kit... so close that an earplug on that side is mandatory for my sanity. I often have to put my pedalboard on top of my amp because there's no floor space. But even with the backaches sometimes I kinda like the smaller setups. There's usually better eye contact, and an immediacy (for lack of a better word) that I enjoy. But if I had the ability to do so, I'd trade for a larger stage.

So, best of luck to that CL bassist with his list of requirements. I hope he gets them. We/I just don't have that luxury most nights...

 

[40Hz]

Neither I nor my gear take up very much space. And I don’t move around that much. So long as nobody was continually bumping into me or blasting my ears out, I was good.

I do prefer to have a clear line of sight to the hi-hat for obvious reasons. But beyond that I was always flexible as far as stage space and positioning went.

 

[IamGroot]

I guess I am "fussy"

I want the bass cab 2' away from the wall .

Any guitarist that wants to put their amp near me is strongly discouraged. One guy ignored me and placed it directly in front of my amp. I picked his amp up with one arm and handed it to him.

 

[Ric5]

How Much Space Do You Need?
Do you include your rig in that determination? How much not counting your amp? Do you bring a mat/rug to isolate your playing space?

Just saw a thread about a CL advert for a fill-in bassist where he spells out his requirements. Some of the demands were pretty outrageous, but one definitely made sense.

He requires 4x4 foot space on the stage.

I’m finding that’s a reasonable requirement. But as a fill-in, he can stipulate his required stage space and bands can pass on him based on that or he can pass on any bands who don’t accommodate it. As a band member, I’ve been shoved to the side. As a fill in, I’ve even taken my rig off stage and stood in the grass just to make a point (didn’t bother the space hogs in that band).

I just had a gig, like many others, in a small bar this weekend. I show up early and load in my rig and mic stand. I help grab the PA mains and monitors, set up the posts and get everything wired up.

Drummer gets there, lays down his rug, I help him load from his car. I try to work around him, but it’s a bit tough because all the parts of his kit takes up so much room and the individual cases sit there all over the place, but mostly in my way. I’m cool with that. I don’t give him grief and I always help at the start and finish.

Then I look over at the other side of the stage, and the guitarist has about 1/3 of the stage to himself, which is about 2x the space that I have left, squished between the crash cymbal and the PA speaker. To be fair, he has the mixing board. But that’s pretty low and not blocking his movement at all.

I guess I’m a whiner, and should just reserve my own space. I’ve also taken to moving up stage along with the singers when I can.

Here's a pic from a gig about 15 years ago … the stage was so small that I had no room to move and I had to hold my bass neck up to keep from banging it into stuff and people

 

[porterbass]

Reading through this thread brings back memories from when I was gigging many nights a week many years ago. Makes me grateful for those bandmates. We played such a variety of stages and always worked it out and had each other's backs without even "thinking" about it. There was no drama or any issues at all with stage space. Drummer/vocals, Bass, 2 lead/rhythm guitars/vocals, lead singer/guitar/violin/mandolin. (I was playing a V6B head/cab along with a second 2 x 15 cab at times.) Love those guys...such joy in playing together.

 

[Kevan Campbell]

Really depends on the band I’m playing with and the stage I’m playing on. Most of the time bands seem to want to have the bassist in the back row of the stage with the drummer while the vocals and melody instruments take the front line, which ends up being an uncomfortable 3&2, either very lopsided (no keys/steel/utility player on the other side of the drummer) or very crowded (there IS a keys/steel/utility player on the ride side of the kit). Other times they let the bassist on the front line, resulted in an ego-gratifying but crowded 4&1 setup.

In either scenario I’m running a wireless rig, so if things get a bit crowded on one side of the stage or a too empty on the other I’ll generally run around to keep the visual aspect of the show looking balanced...or if the stage is generally too crowded I’ve been known to run offstage while playing to get free shots from the bartenders.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

How Much Space Do You Need?
Do you include your rig in that determination? How much not counting your amp? Do you bring a mat/rug to isolate your playing space?

Just saw a thread about a CL advert for a fill-in bassist where he spells out his requirements. Some of the demands were pretty outrageous, but one definitely made sense.

He requires 4x4 foot space on the stage.

I’m finding that’s a reasonable requirement. But as a fill-in, he can stipulate his required stage space and bands can pass on him based on that or he can pass on any bands who don’t accommodate it. As a band member, I’ve been shoved to the side. As a fill in, I’ve even taken my rig off stage and stood in the grass just to make a point (didn’t bother the space hogs in that band).

I just had a gig, like many others, in a small bar this weekend. I show up early and load in my rig and mic stand. I help grab the PA mains and monitors, set up the posts and get everything wired up.

Drummer gets there, lays down his rug, I help him load from his car. I try to work around him, but it’s a bit tough because all the parts of his kit takes up so much room and the individual cases sit there all over the place, but mostly in my way. I’m cool with that. I don’t give him grief and I always help at the start and finish.

Then I look over at the other side of the stage, and the guitarist has about 1/3 of the stage to himself, which is about 2x the space that I have left, squished between the crash cymbal and the PA speaker. To be fair, he has the mixing board. But that’s pretty low and not blocking his movement at all.

I guess I’m a whiner, and should just reserve my own space. I’ve also taken to moving up stage along with the singers when I can.

As long as my amp can fit, I'll find a space for me. My rig is two 2x12s stack vertically, so I only really need like a 2 foot square on stage. Not bad at all. Finding a place to play, on the other hand, is a bit trickier. Sometimes I'm left in the background. But, I always make do with what I got. Hahaha, I remember one time we were so cramped that I was standing dangerously close to the lead guitar. His hair got straight tied to my tuners mid solo. Hahaha. He didnt even flinch. Luckily though, theres a bass pause directly after on that song, and I untangled him. I thought it was great though. I turned a little bit for the rest of the set.

 

[nnnnnn]

A four foot diameter circle is the minimum a bassist would need just to be able to turn around on the spot while wearing a bass guitar in normal playing position, so anything less than a four by four square seems pretty unreasonable to me, especially if that includes the amp and a guitar stand.

My only stage experience is in churches though, where I always had more space than that, I've never had to deal with poky pub spaces or whatever that you professionals get stuck in.

 

[LowRick]

Never measured it really... we always figure it out. Partially because of Isaac Newtons cause and effect rule, but mostly because we're mostly out there to have a great time, i never lay any of such claims anywhere

 

[Kro]

How Much Space Do You Need?
Do you include your rig in that determination? How much not counting your amp? Do you bring a mat/rug to isolate your playing space?

A mat or rug seems kind of silly IMHO, but that is one of the many purposes of a stage plot.

It's funny you should ask about this, as I do find it to be something of a sticking point with me. Thankfully it's been a few years since I needed to join a new project, but whenever I do, I make it known that I'm not a shrinking violet. I'm a performer, and need space to perform - up-front, stage space permitting. This is just one other area where a stage plot is extremely helpful as it allows you to put your needs in writing - not just for the venue/techs, but as a band as well. This is what my current band has formally listed:

"Four up front"

"Four up front". That's the mantra. Any time that a sound engineer asks about our stage layout if they haven't seen the plot, "four up front" is the first thing I say.

Of course, that isn't always possible, and I'm actually very flexible, but it pays to stand up for yourself and protect your space early on so that you aren't forever relegated to the back corner regardless of stage size. As noted, it's a respect thing - being recognized as a contributor.

 

[Chad Michael]

The only 'cramped' stage space I had to deal with: party boat on Lake Coeur d' Alene. But - so worth it, cruising across the lake, beautiful weather, people who dig live music, etc.

 

[hrodbert696]

I remember one time playing an open mic with a house backline. Not only was there no space to move around, but it was set up in such a way that I had to hold the neck of the bass between a mic stand and a speaker pole. Literally could not shift the neck back or forwards more than six inches. That was no fun.

I try to be compact. With Six Cowards I have a split-signal, dual-amp setup; but I shopped around for gear that would stack vertically rather than have to spread out across the stage (It's a Marshall Origin 20 on top of a GK MB210-ii combo). There's also pedalboards and a keyboard I use on that setup. So it's probably 4'x4' when you count all that in, minimum. Actually maybe more like 3' x 5', deeper than wide. But the band is just a trio. For whatever reason, I've always been up front next to the singer rather than in the back with the drums.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

We’re a happy-go-lucky bunch, except when it comes to floor space. Competition is fierce. It’s a jungle out there! I got my 4x6 rug, and I show up early to set it where I want it.

 

[rtslinger]

I'm wireless and ampless , so I couldn't tell what space that I take up since I can pretty much go where ever I want.
I have even played a song sitting outside with the people at the street side tables

 

[Turbo Sparky]

IMO, and this is how my band does it:
1. Drums
2. Bass/Guitar simultaneously on either side of drums.
3. PA as required.
Adjust/balance accordingly with stage/riser space.
Sometimes it's cramped, sometimes wide open.
...but always balanced.
Showboats/space junkies need not apply.
Good luck, and plant your flag.

 

[Showdown]

I once played in a space so tight the drummer had to set up on top of the walk in fridge by the bar, ten feet in the air, and I had to stand next to the door of the fridge so whenever the bartender went inside I had to turn so they wouldn't hit the neck of my bass. They went in and out constantly. The other two guitarists were next to me, one of them the singer. They had no space either. We had to mic the kick and put it in the monitors or we couldn't hear it. People asked why we had a drum machine instead of a drummer....

I once played in an 8 piece soul band in a space that would barely fit 4. The sax player was inches in front of me, my back against the wall. The guitarist on the other side of a supporting column, completely out of site of the band. In pictures you can't even see me. Claustrophobic.

Fortunately my regular weekly gig today is on a huge stage, with plenty of room to move around.

Here in Honolulu there are a lot of very small places, so you just have to deal with it.