Standby switch (Sadowsky SA200)

[baxter_x]

Coupled with a lack of headroom

Thats the weirdest thing for me. I never noticed any lack of headroom despite being only a 200w amp.
I just tried it on my Ashdown 810, all the knobs set a noon from gain to master, I the amp was so loud i had to play softly on my Sadowsky modern 5.

The first time I tried it with my band was on my genz Benz 212 and I was amazed how it sounded and how notes were reaching my ears effortlessly. I didn't notice any lack of headroom in any way. Even the rest of the band told me my tone was very unique on that gig.

But I have to say the WD800 is very tempting....

 

[smeet]

Thats the weirdest thing for me. I never noticed any lack of headroom despite being only a 200w amp.
I just tried it on my Ashdown 810, all the knobs set a noon from gain to master, I the amp was so loud i had to play softly on my Sadowsky modern 5.

The first time I tried it with my band was on my genz Benz 212 and I was amazed how it sounded and how notes were reaching my ears effortlessly. I didn't notice any lack of headroom in any way. Even the rest of the band told me my tone was very unique on that gig.

But I have to say the WD800 is very tempting....

I felt like the amp was compressing, probably because I had the Fat switch on, which I believe increases the gain to the preamp. There want a lot of “pop” to the attack. I’ll have to try the Fat switch off and Bottom rolled off.

The WD800 is an excellent amp. It’s loud and has a powerful eq. I think of it as being very accurate but not sterile. It works great with a band, but to my ear it doesn’t have that elusive “magic” tone/touch/feel. But maybe that doesn’t matter…

 

[Wasnex]

I felt like the amp was compressing, probably because I had the Fat switch on, which I believe increases the gain to the preamp. There want a lot of “pop” to the attack. I’ll have to try the Fat switch off and Bottom rolled off.

You need to experiment with this amp to figure out it's little tricks/secrets. It has Gain, Volume, and a Master. The extra gain control makes the amp a bit more versatile, but it's also more complicated to understand how to get a sound. High Gain and low Volume will sound different than low Gain and high Volume. The position of the Master also will have some affect on the sound and feel.

With your stated tone and feel goals, I suggest running the gain lower, rather than higher. I believe this will make the sound more focused and clear, and less compressed/gooey. For live work, try turning up the mids, and possibly the treble. Dialing back the Top control may help take out a bit of glassy quality. Try gentle tone adjustments. The tone network on this amp is incredibly musical, but it not particular versatile or powerful. My guess is you will find the best sound with most of tone controls between about 10:30 and 1:30.

The Fat switch adds gain, and makes the sound warmer and more vintage. If you prefer the Fat voicing but not the resulting compression. Dial back the Gain and compensate by turning up the Volume or Master.

Here is the signal path:
Input->V1a->Gain->V1b->Fat/Clean->Bottom/Top->Fender Tone Stack*->Volume->FX Loop**->Master->V2B->Phase Inverter (V3a,b)->Output Tubes

* I would say the amp's tone is on the perimeter of the Fender tone universe.
** The FX loop is driven by a solid state IC. You probably don't want clipping here.

My impression is the way you adjust the Fender Tone Stack will have a pretty significant impact on how functional the Bottom and Top controls are. You might say the controls are interactive. The Bass and Treble are sort of an HPF and LPF. So if you dial them back, I think it rolls off the range of frequencies where the Bottom and Top controls are functional.

 

[baxter_x]

I felt like the amp was compressing, probably because I had the Fat switch on, which I believe increases the gain to the preamp. There want a lot of “pop” to the attack. I’ll have to try the Fat switch off and Bottom rolled off.

What you describe sounds like the preamp was not set "correctly". That's actually my experience with it when I set the volume knob not accordingly. IMO that's something to get used to with that amp.

 

[baxter_x]

Some interesting suggestions here, I will try them out.

So, how did you get used to the SA200 in the end?

 

[smeet]

So, how did you get used to the SA200 in the end?

The days have been quite full for me. We are living serially in various airbnbs while we talk to contractors and get bids for our new-to-us house to be updated. In the meantime I’m being very challenged with my bass lessons and also gigging and learning many songs, arrangements, and transitions for the funk band. I played my first casino gig this weekend!

So I won’t have space or time to evaluate the amp until we are in the house - at least a month and a half. Frustrating, but being flooded with playing and learning music is pretty exhilarating so I’m not gonna complain.

I’ll update this thread when I have new info.

 

[baxter_x]

my "a-ha" moment with the SA200 came when I followed some advice on that thread and cut the bottom completely to start, adding it only if needed.

Last week I rehearsed with my SA200. While I loved its massive low end, I thought it was a bit too much and the mids and highs were a bit too weak compared to the lows.
So I did exactly what you described and it really improved things!

By the way @smeet did you give another try with the amp?
Or you still prefer the WD800?

 

[smeet]

Last week I rehearsed with my SA200. While I loved its massive low end, I thought it was a bit too much and the mids and highs were a bit too weak compared to the lows.
So I did exactly what you described and it really improved things!

By the way @smeet did you give another try with the amp?
Or you still prefer the WD800?

We are in our new house, surrounded by boxes. I have all my gear now, but not organized at all. I played a couple of gigs with my Sisma, which was really nice. I'll pull out the SA200 over the weekend and try out all the excellent suggestions in this thread.

 

[tombowlus]

We are in our new house, surrounded by boxes. I have all my gear now, but not organized at all. I played a couple of gigs with my Sisma, which was really nice. I'll pull out the SA200 over the weekend and try out all the excellent suggestions in this thread.

Sorry that I missed this thread for so long. While I still love my SA200, I, too, initially struggled to get enough gig volume out of it. Even with the SA410/SA210, it just wasn't giving me the same authority that I was getting from even smaller rigs. But then I picked up a second SA410, and I have to say, this was a dramatic improvement. The SA200 just needs more cone surface area, IME/IMHO. Granted, hauling around two 4x10's (or one 8x10) and an all-tube head can feel a little crazy in a world of truly competent (again, IME/IMHO) smaller, lighter weight cabs and class-D heads, but if you really want to gig with the SA200 - and it is glorious! - I feel like you need to bring more/bigger cabs.

 

[baxter_x]

The SA200 just needs more cone surface area

To me that's logical. Even with low power amp like the SA200, adding another cab is the way to go.
Instead of going for more power, adding more surface should be the answer.
To me bringing two 410 or an 810 has nothing crazy, especially with those new neodymium lightweight cabs.
I haven't tried gigging the SA200 with my two 410 yet, but I'm willing to!

Also, @tombowlus may we ask you a picture of this glorious rig?
Owning such a great amp plus two SA410 is just absolutely unique!

 

[tombowlus]

Also, @tombowlus may we ask you a picture of this glorious rig?
Owning such a great amp plus two SA410 is just absolutely unique!

Sure thing! Here it is with the SA210/410:

Back then, I was in a one-guitar band, and the Roland (controlled via PK-5A pedals) into the Berg IP112/EX112 was my "keyboard rig" and the Ampeg combo was my "rhythm guitar rig" (Akai Uni-Bass).

Same venue, but now with two SA410's, a Berg IP212 for the "keyboard rig" and a YBA-200 into the SA210 for the "rhythm guitar rig," LOL!

I also really like the Berg NV215 with the SA200, especially with a Trace Bright Box on top. Still using the Ampeg combo, here, I see...

 

[baxter_x]

especially with a Trace Bright Box on top

I never saw that thing before. What's special about it?

About the SA410, was it hard to find?

 

[tombowlus]

I never saw that thing before. What's special about it?

About the SA410, was it hard to find?

Trace Elliot made a couple versions of the Bright Box. One (like mine) has four smaller high frequency drivers - great top end clarity, no harsh edges - and one which is one horn with a wide lens. Have not heard that one. I like that it adds some high frequency extension to the NV215.

I don't believe Jim Bergantino made very many of the SA cabs, so just finding them can be a bit of a challenge. They are basically the same cab as the Berg HS410, but with a stiffer "spider" to deal with the tube amp excursion.

 

[baxter_x]

They are basically the same cab as the Berg HS410, but with a stiffer "spider" to deal with the tube amp excursion.

Very interesting! I guess it'll be easier to search for a HS410. Even if it's still a rare cab I guess, especially since I'm in Europe.
It's also a very heavy cab! As heavy as two Hartke HL410. But look for one anyway I guess.