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Standing Your Ground

E

ezra1

Jun 7, 2009
821
994
Behind the Pine Curtain
#1
I am an old guy and been playing since the 70s.
We have a band now with me on bass, a drummer and guitarist that have played off and on since the 80s. Added another guitarist and keyboards..
We are doing blues and Classic Rock. We try to learn different songs every week.
This configuration has been playing together a little over a year.
Twice this year the long time guitarist has wanted me to change the tone of my bass. If it is full and bassy he says it is distorted and needs treble.And asked what was I trying to accomplish...( Mimicking Loud Amp tones but not at a loud volume )
I do not have tin ears. I have 3 overdrives each set up a little different. SVT , Marshall Super Bass and B-15.
I like my tones. In the mix I do my job.
He doesn't want me to use any effects. Says my gear sounds good on it's own ( all Ampeg )
That he gets his tone straight into the amp.
I beg to differ . He has delay, compression and distortion on his board and they are used.
This guy is a lifelong friend but I command my tone. I don't need a backseat driver
 
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#4
If it were me, I'd definitely try as recommended if the guitarist was getting the gigs and paying me, or if the guy paying me had assigned the guitarist as band's MD.

Otherwise, I may still try it as recommended, or at least try a compromise of rolling the gain back a little, maybe even record and listen to different gain levels in the mix.

It comes to a choice for me between being right and having some peace of mind.

You and I are probably close in age. In my experience, choosing defiance at this age doesn't give me much traction. OTOH, choosing my battles carefully buys me some peace.

Besides, most of those times I stood my ground in past bands were an exercise in futility at best - and those were the few times I was actually right.

EDIT: This is the ONLY advice I can share in the absence of clips or rig run-downs.
 
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#5
There is "Hey, could you change that? It would sound better in the mix?"
- Because it would. A guitarist for example, might have too much treble/highs, too much gain/distortion, be stepping on the bass zone, need some compression on clean arpeggios. Same issue for bass in the mix.

Then there is "Hey - I prefer this tone. Change what you are doing."

That one requires two things
1. Be open to considering that it just might actually be the first thing I mentioned
2. A neutral third party

If the guitar player has an issue, make him use his words.
- Too much treble because the strings are scraping when you move your fingers? Or sounds tinny against other mellow toned instruments?
- Too little mids? Isn't distinct or cutting through the mix?
- Needs some overdrive to fill in some blank spaces or an octave to fill out the sound. Or both. (Now a two guitar band - so neither...actually)

What EXACTLY is his issue. He probably doesn't know or have one. Just wants a different sound. And of course, like all guitarists (because I'm one) assumes his tone is good.

What exactly IS he playing through? Guitar/Pickups/Effects/Amp ?????
 
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#6
sean_on_bass said:
i agree you are in charge of your tone. only thing i would do yourself is to at least consider the feedback. does your tone serve the music? and do you need 3 overdrives in your signal chain? i can at least say i sure don't, but i don't know how you are using them.
Click to expand...
He doesn't want me with any effects and this includes compressors .
The Overdrives are never used simultaneously or stacked .Each OD is set up as a different amp. Gain is around 9:00 or slightly less. And I do turn the gain down and boost the treble when asked. Sometimes I go from flats to round wounds on P-Basses and J- Basses. There is a old EB-1 from 56 and a EB-3 but they weren't involved in this discussion in
 
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#9
I’m gonna guess that you’re all in your 70s, based on your comment about playing since the 1970s. And if that is the case, I have to ask why you or your guitarist really care that much one way or the other? You’re playing music for fun at this point, right? So why not just play?

There’s not likely a ton of money or a recording contract on the line… the only real sacrifice in either of you “standing your ground” on this is the friendship that I assume you have with each other. You gotta ask yourselves if it’s really worth it for something so inconsequential
 
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#10
ezra1 said:
I am an old guy and been playing since the 70s.
We have a band now with me on bass, a drummer and guitarist that have played off and on since the 80s. Added another guitarist and keyboards..
We are doing blues and Classic Rock. We try to learn different songs every week.
This configuration has been playing together a little over a year.
Twice this year the long time guitarist has wanted me to change the tone of my bass. If it is full and bassy he says it is distorted and needs treble.And asked what was I trying to accomplish...( Mimicking Loud Amp tones but not at a loud volume )
I do not have tin ears. I have 3 overdrives each set up a little different. SVT , Marshall Super Bass and B-15.
I like my tones. In the mix I do my job.
He doesn't want me to use any effects. Says my gear sounds good on it's own ( all Ampeg )
That he gets his tone straight into the amp.
I beg to differ . He has delay, compression and distortion on his board and they are used.
This guy is a lifelong friend but I command my tone. I don't need a backseat driver
Click to expand...
Guitarists

It seems like every guitar player is the master of tone, and the mix. That everyone needs this, takes this away, add this, etc. But, criticize thier beloved tone, and they have total breakdowns.

My guitar player wants zero mid bass frequencies. He wants the treble and bass so boosted that I drown out everyone, but you can't hear me. He wants his tone warm and creamy, but he gets lost during the choruses. No sound guy or band member can mess with any sort of eq on him, but the first thing he does to you on the board is mess with your channel's eq. When really, he's just too loud.
 
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#12
I kinda have a debate with my guitar player every few gigs—about my tone, of course. I’ll listen to anyone who thinks I’m too loud or not loud enough. But don’t come at me with your personal preferences. Please. We are peers. I pour a lifetime of learning into my tone, every time out. I basically tell him to shut up and listen to the actual mix, not what I sound like when we’re tuning up. He’s usually very complimentary by the first break.

Those guys don’t seem to learn anything.
 
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#20
Yep, some gtrs think their ears are the final arbiter.
But they dont know it all and certainly not when it comes to bass..But if they are going to be an ass about it you just need to reconcile are they worth it.

My guess is that you'll eventually leave when you realise how unhappy you are on the gigs..
 

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