I only listened to a little bit so I could comment back in a timely fashion but what I've heard so far sounds awesome man!
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Starting a Prog Rock Band
- Thread starter amusicalperson
- Start date
I only listened to a little bit so I could comment back in a timely fashion but what I've heard so far sounds awesome man!
I have been in a "prog rock" band (we decided to label ourselves 'fusion' though for marketing reasons, lol... 'prog rock' for some reason just has this stigma of a bunch of old farts stuck in the 80's, and all of us were late teens at the time. Plus fusion can attract the hipster crowd if marketed correctly).
We just had bass, 2 guitars, drums, and vocals though. I think keyboard would be bad idea if you ever want gigs, I mentioned it to my bandmates and all of them shot it down immediately...
I would say our style was a more modern version of what was going on in the 70's and 80's, with no keyboard and more Coheed and Cambria style vocals.
Yes it is very hard to get gigs, especially paying ones. Granted we didn't try very hard, we were mostly focused on jamming, writing music, and the occasional cover. I think we could have gotten more takes at underground 'punk' or house shows if we had been more diligent / serious. And yes I have a double neck xD
We just had bass, 2 guitars, drums, and vocals though. I think keyboard would be bad idea if you ever want gigs, I mentioned it to my bandmates and all of them shot it down immediately...
I would say our style was a more modern version of what was going on in the 70's and 80's, with no keyboard and more Coheed and Cambria style vocals.
Yes it is very hard to get gigs, especially paying ones. Granted we didn't try very hard, we were mostly focused on jamming, writing music, and the occasional cover. I think we could have gotten more takes at underground 'punk' or house shows if we had been more diligent / serious. And yes I have a double neck xD
It's no Ric 4080 but a sweet double-neck indeed. Very "Fusion-y" that being said, did you have a cape?
My concept for my dream Prog/Alt band is masks and tuxedos or masks and tactical gear. Or masks and racing suits. We'll definitely start out wearing our own clothes in the beginning, but there will be masks. I hope.
As for lyrics, it'll be about a variety of stuff. Existentialism, pessimism, death, mourning, frustrations with self, making fun of this current generation that I despise belonging to, psychosis, misanthropy, interesting books and stories and life events and all. Some stuff I will write are actually going to have to do with God, but subtle, so that the meaning is seen as ambiguous, etc.
Concept albums make for really great music.
This guy is my new hero. By the way, does his mom know were the dining room table cloth is at?
She said as long as he didn't get extra-terrestial DNA on it, he could borrow it.
Thanks brother, if only we could have played to a room full of you
Aww, that may be the most heart-warming thing of the night! You sir deserve an award!Thanks brother, if only we could have played to a room full of you
I played in a prog band for 5 years. We were only prog on paper, though. We did a few songs in 5/4 and 7/8 but most of it was straight piano-rock, very accessible. We called ourselves prog and I guess we were to some extent. Our gigs were varied, we played some great shows, some empty ones. I more remember gigging with other prog rock bands or "virtuoso rock" if you will, where it was all about technicality and speed of playing, and many of those were Prog-Metal, which was much more common. The other side of Prog was the Prog Jam band, which was really just a jam band. Then we had the Prague Roque guys, super snobs.. one guy we played with had a 27 piece drum kit. He used all the drums for every song. It wasn't good music, like YES, who I consider to be the best prog band in all existence ever. There have been others I loved but none with the quality of music that YES had. I wanted to do something like that but settled to do something worthwhile but not truly inventive and unique. Still looking for that.
@BlueAliceOasis A double-neck is mandatory. I would KILL for a Ric 4080 but seeing as they never come up for sale and when they do they are insanely expensive, I could make my own Jazz Bass/12 string Strat Double-Neck from Warmoth for around $1,500 (painted, pickups, and all.) Thoughts? I'd also have my Ric 4003 onstage for the "Prog Rock Purists."
I guess I'm not a purist then lol
I can't afford a Ric so I used my T-40 and double neck. It's no Ric 4080 but a sweet double-neck indeed. Very "Fusion-y" that being said, did you have a cape?
No, unfortunately I have never been into the crazy clothing, I just wear either shorts and t-shirt or jeans and button up shirt to gigs depending on the gig. Also you have to understand in the gigs we did get we were trying to appeal to hipsters, punks, and metal heads (those 3 groups make or break a band in the PDX music scene) so one of the guitarist dressed metal (spike strap, leather jacket), one guitarist dressed extremely hipster (with a fedora), and the vocalist dressed punk or grunge (depending on the day lol).
But yes you should definitely do it! The world needs more prog bands! I enjoyed the experience and I will start another band when the right circumstances materialize.
I really appreciate your insight! I have to fully agree with you that YES is the greatest Prog band, atleast in my opinion. They had the perfect balance of Prog-tendencies and great songwriting. I would consider Genesis a close second for myself.
I'll cut you some slack on the cape since you guys were trying to appeal to a different audience.I guess I'm not a purist then lol
No, unfortunately I have never been into the crazy clothing, I just wear either shorts and t-shirt or jeans and button up shirt to gigs depending on the gig. Also you have to understand in the gigs we did get we were trying to appeal to hipsters, punks, and metal heads (those 3 groups make or break a band in the PDX music scene) so one of the guitarist dressed metal (spike strap, leather jacket), one guitarist dressed extremely hipster (with a fedora), and the vocalist dressed punk or grunge (depending on the day lol).
But yes you should definitely do it! The world needs more prog bands! I enjoyed the experience and I will start another band when the right circumstances materialize.
And as far as Ric-ys go, they sure don't give those things away, I got a nice deal on mine (two months used). I definitely appreciate the support and experience. It means the world to me!
I live in San Diego.Man, this response warmed my heart! I can't imagine trying to draw an audience while in the Surf Rock genre. I'll wear my cape proudly for you and I owe it to you to go to one of your shows! Where do you live now?
Surf players proudly wear the badge of being a niche genre. I guess it comes with the territory.
I enjoyed Maxschreks post about the guys who stand in the back and complain about the lack of a real Mellotron, or a Rickenbacker Bass.
We have them, too. "Dudes playing a Jazz Bass, not a P." "Dudes not playing through a vintage Fender Reverb unit."
Some things must be universal.
Surf players have saying,"If you play Surf Music for living, you're probably homeless." Lol.
Woof, San Diego is a far ways from Louisiana.
but if I'm ever in the area I'll look you up! And yep, those darn purists are killing the music industry 
That has to be one of the BEST sayings I've ever heard!My drummer from that band lived and breathed Genesis. It's all he would ever listen to. He had every version of every release. He had every live show. If he had control of a stereo it was Genesis. I never really gave them too much time, given they weren't really a bass player's band, but I have grown to appreciate what they did. He liked YES of course, and Rush.. I don't like Rush. It's disheartening to say "I like prog" and they're like RUSH or GENESIS right off the bat, not "Gentle Giant!" or "TFK!", but I have come to know the genre I love, and it's utter lack of presence in today's society, to the point where clearly prog rock bands like Radiohead won't even admit they play it due to the stigma, fostered by ELP (RIP E) and the capes (look at Lady Gaga and tell me the capes are a big deal).
@maxschrek I guess to please the Purists I'll have to run my Ric stereo to two Marshall Super Leads a la Chris Squire, I actually can't say that I wouldn't mind that.
I want to admit that I'm not a huge Rush fan either but I don't want to say it too loudly as to upset all of talkbass.My drummer from that band lived and breathed Genesis. It's all he would ever listen to. He had every version of every release. He had every live show. If he had control of a stereo it was Genesis. I never really gave them too much time, given they weren't really a bass player's band, but I have grown to appreciate what they did. He liked YES of course, and Rush.. I don't like Rush. It's disheartening to say "I like prog" and they're like RUSH or GENESIS right off the bat, not "Gentle Giant!" or "TFK!", but I have come to know the genre I love, and it's utter lack of presence in today's society, to the point where clearly prog rock bands like Radiohead won't even admit they play it due to the stigma, fostered by ELP (RIP E) and the capes (look at Lady Gaga and tell me the capes are a big deal).
But I have to understand where you are coming from, it's the same with everything in music. Everyone knows "Stairway to Heaven" not many know "Ten Years Gone" (just an example because that's my favorite Zeppelin song ) I'd have to dig up a picture but there is this one concert where Emerson is wearing a suit that appears to be made of armadillos! I don't think anyone will ever out-do Rick Wakeman when it comes to capes.
Some thoughts in no particular order:
To make it work, the best advice I can give is to bring back the genre - but this time around skip all the excesses and self-indulgences that did a number on prog back in the day. Focus on the music first, last and always - and especially the melodies. Make sure what you're playing are songs as opposed to extended scale exercises or regurgitations of classic music snippets on guitar and synth. Good songs develop a theme or idea and have a beginning, a middle, and an end. Make sure all yours do. And when in doubt, simplify.
Pay attention to your image. Prog is all about pretty. So don't be afraid to look good. Always put in your best appearance. But don't get too bogged down with costuming. I'd skip the capes unless you're sorta poking a little fun at the old days. It looked pretentious and childish back then. It probably won't fly at all today. Someplace between white silk and capes and Geddy Lee's way of dressing down, there's a happy medium for stage dress. Find yours. Even somebody as talented as Peter Gabriel overdid the costuming and stage antics early in his career with the original Genesis lineup. Don't make that mistake unless you're talented enough (like he is) to get out from under the silly and pompous image he created for himself early on.
Don't be afraid to be a little intellectual, romantic, and starry-eyed. Prog generally paints a picture of a better more interesting mental and spiritual world. That's one of its chief attractions IMO. So don't be afraid of grown up words in your lyrics, good sentiments in your message, and having a message. The Moody's open every show with the song Lovely to See You Again and wrap it up with John Lodge thanking everyone for joining them on this journey. Four generations later, that message is still winning hearts. And for good reason.
Keep your costs under control. You don't need a lot of equipment to pull it off these days. So don't go overboard with keyboards etc. Take a tip from the likes of Tull and Al Stewart. If the songs are strong enough, they're not going to be dependent on a ton of gadgetry to sound good or be interesting. And a stage that looks like the showroom floor at NAMM doesn't impress audiences like it used to. People are very used to seeing and using technology these days. It no longer has the WOW factor it once did. So make it far less visible than the old guard felt compelled to.
Good prog isn't usually that easy to play if you're new to it. Make sure whatever you do play is capable of being played by every member in the band. A muff in jazz gets a few frowns from the audience. A miss in blues is just mojo and "the humanity" - and it's usually appreciated (or at least excused) by the blues crowd. But a flubbed moment in a prog song is a disaster. So take care and make sure you're note perfect every time.
And if you're going to focus on anything, put the effort into good vocals and vocal harmonies. The human voice has often been referred to as the "queen of musical instruments." There's a reason for that. So work to make sure your vocals are solid. Because they're going to be the jewel in your crown. Let's take two examples from prog's classic years.
The band Renaissance had a collection of so-so songs, and about as much stage presence and animation as a sleeping Labrador retriever. But they were a smash success because of one thing. And it was called: Annie Haslam. Emerson Lake and Palmer was extremely popular for many years. A lot of it was Kieth's over the top keyboard, Greg's phenomenal bass and guitar work, and Carl's percussion pyrotechnics. But the real clincher was Greg Lake's vocals. So do the math.
By all means compose and perform originals. There's enough tribute bands and stage shows already. And a lot of them are really good at doing carbon copies of their favorite bands. If you just want to do other people's music, it'd probably make more sense for you to try to hooking up with one of those shows or bands. Or do your own tribute band if none are local. At least you'll make a little money and probably get to gig out far more often that way.
As far as gigging out goes, my prog band days were in the genre's heyday back in the '70s. It was the emerging style when I was in it, so the rails were already greased for me. Doing it today is going to be a lot tougher. About the best I can suggest is that you create and play really good prog music, and stick together long enough for it to start happening. Most people don't realize how long it takes to become sufficiently familiar that people are willing to let you entertain them. That's called "getting the permission of the marketplace." In my experience, it takes on the average of three years before it happens.
Don't know if any of this is beneficial. But thats about what I've got for the moment.
To make it work, the best advice I can give is to bring back the genre - but this time around skip all the excesses and self-indulgences that did a number on prog back in the day. Focus on the music first, last and always - and especially the melodies. Make sure what you're playing are songs as opposed to extended scale exercises or regurgitations of classic music snippets on guitar and synth. Good songs develop a theme or idea and have a beginning, a middle, and an end. Make sure all yours do. And when in doubt, simplify.
Pay attention to your image. Prog is all about pretty. So don't be afraid to look good. Always put in your best appearance. But don't get too bogged down with costuming. I'd skip the capes unless you're sorta poking a little fun at the old days. It looked pretentious and childish back then. It probably won't fly at all today. Someplace between white silk and capes and Geddy Lee's way of dressing down, there's a happy medium for stage dress. Find yours. Even somebody as talented as Peter Gabriel overdid the costuming and stage antics early in his career with the original Genesis lineup. Don't make that mistake unless you're talented enough (like he is) to get out from under the silly and pompous image he created for himself early on.
Don't be afraid to be a little intellectual, romantic, and starry-eyed. Prog generally paints a picture of a better more interesting mental and spiritual world. That's one of its chief attractions IMO. So don't be afraid of grown up words in your lyrics, good sentiments in your message, and having a message. The Moody's open every show with the song Lovely to See You Again and wrap it up with John Lodge thanking everyone for joining them on this journey. Four generations later, that message is still winning hearts. And for good reason.
Keep your costs under control. You don't need a lot of equipment to pull it off these days. So don't go overboard with keyboards etc. Take a tip from the likes of Tull and Al Stewart. If the songs are strong enough, they're not going to be dependent on a ton of gadgetry to sound good or be interesting. And a stage that looks like the showroom floor at NAMM doesn't impress audiences like it used to. People are very used to seeing and using technology these days. It no longer has the WOW factor it once did. So make it far less visible than the old guard felt compelled to.
Good prog isn't usually that easy to play if you're new to it. Make sure whatever you do play is capable of being played by every member in the band. A muff in jazz gets a few frowns from the audience. A miss in blues is just mojo and "the humanity" - and it's usually appreciated (or at least excused) by the blues crowd. But a flubbed moment in a prog song is a disaster. So take care and make sure you're note perfect every time.
And if you're going to focus on anything, put the effort into good vocals and vocal harmonies. The human voice has often been referred to as the "queen of musical instruments." There's a reason for that. So work to make sure your vocals are solid. Because they're going to be the jewel in your crown. Let's take two examples from prog's classic years.
The band Renaissance had a collection of so-so songs, and about as much stage presence and animation as a sleeping Labrador retriever. But they were a smash success because of one thing. And it was called: Annie Haslam. Emerson Lake and Palmer was extremely popular for many years. A lot of it was Kieth's over the top keyboard, Greg's phenomenal bass and guitar work, and Carl's percussion pyrotechnics. But the real clincher was Greg Lake's vocals. So do the math.
By all means compose and perform originals. There's enough tribute bands and stage shows already. And a lot of them are really good at doing carbon copies of their favorite bands. If you just want to do other people's music, it'd probably make more sense for you to try to hooking up with one of those shows or bands. Or do your own tribute band if none are local. At least you'll make a little money and probably get to gig out far more often that way.
As far as gigging out goes, my prog band days were in the genre's heyday back in the '70s. It was the emerging style when I was in it, so the rails were already greased for me. Doing it today is going to be a lot tougher. About the best I can suggest is that you create and play really good prog music, and stick together long enough for it to start happening. Most people don't realize how long it takes to become sufficiently familiar that people are willing to let you entertain them. That's called "getting the permission of the marketplace." In my experience, it takes on the average of three years before it happens.
Don't know if any of this is beneficial. But thats about what I've got for the moment.
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There's an album called A Spark in the Aether by The Tangent that is pretty much all about prog rock and how it has been underappreciated and disparaged as conceited and unapproachable. A very good album, as are the rest of Andy Tillson's (under The Tangent name). They are joyfully low budget but full of creativity and inspired songwriting, excellent guest musicians and tons of shoutouts to the the old classics.
ROFL at the Wakeman capes
@amusicalperson
He looks like Sarumon from the Lord of the Rings movies. I get the criticism, I do, but Wakeman is/was a musician of the highest caliber. Also, drugs. Look at Slipknot.
ROFL at the Wakeman capes
@amusicalperson
He looks like Sarumon from the Lord of the Rings movies. I get the criticism, I do, but Wakeman is/was a musician of the highest caliber. Also, drugs. Look at Slipknot.
