Starting with Improvisation

[interp]

I am improvising this post. I learned this language from hearing it all of my waking hours. And then spending many of those hours practicing making all those sounds I heard. I got better and better and learned to construct words and sentences on the fly and got better and better. Much later I learned to write them down.

If you listen to music (bass) 16 hours a day, and spend 12 hours a day trying to make those sounds on your bass, you will soon build a ton of vocabulary from which to draw. Just like I have countless word options to write this post with.

Obviously that's not realistic, but if you immerse yourself in getting the sounds in your head, and learning to make those sounds on your bass... just keep doing it and doing it. I agree with others that you should learn theory and all, but music (bass) is a language you can learn to speak before you reverse engineer and analyze the why's.

Exactly.

 

[Ekim]

To paraphrase Victor Wooten when someone asked about learning to improvise. He said "Well you just improvised that question."

Then he likened it to speaking. You start by imitating. Then, eventually, when you have a large enough vocabulary, you learn to say what you want to say instead of repeating. You're still using the same process.

I usually hate the silly "music is a language" thing, but in that instance, it makes perfect sense.

 

[stringthrough]

Listen, transcribe, analyze transcription, play, repeat... Eventually you'll come to understand what the greats are doing and in a natural way you will synthesize this material and come up with your own style and method for improvising.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Chord tones and chord scales. Improvisation largely happens over these two things (tones being the 1,3,5,7 of the chord scale and chord scales being all 7 pitches in the chord). Lay down a drum beat however you can and start fiddling around within the chord and emphasize any distinctions of the chord. So e.g. if the chord is an A7, you would want to emphasize the Gnat in your groove. Yes there are minor and major pentatonics, but improvisation happens over the chord that the band is playing. An advanced concept, but one worth learning.

So in one sense, your teacher is correct, you need to learn scales, but what was not said is that doing them top to bottom is unnecessary. Improv happens all over the chord, so knowing the notes within a chord is most important (hence the "learn your scales" concept). Learn the notes in the chords you will need (major, minor, dom7, etc) and you will be on your way.

Key things for bass players in improv is to not hit the root on the 1 to vary it around.

All of this is mostly true, but your last statement applies improvisation in jazz vice what I think the OP is talking about, which is improvising riffs within a bass groove. In that case you pretty much want to hit the root on one.

...I usually hate the silly "music is a language" thing, but in that instance, it makes perfect sense.

This statement is always true... No need to hate truth. It may not be the way people typically think of language, but it is what it is...

 

[dreamadream99]

I am improvising this post.

TW brings up a good point.
How do you learn to talk? You listen to talkers.
How do learn to write? You read writers.
So...
How do you learn to write good bass lines? You listen and learn good bass lines.
You need a frame of reference. Standards and practices.
If you're going to write something with mass appeal, you have to know a fair bit about what is massively appealing.

 

[TedH]

All of this is mostly true, but your last statement applies improvisation in jazz vice what I think the OP is talking about, which is improvising riffs within a bass groove. In that case you pretty much want to hit the root on one.

Variety is the key to improvisation in the core sense, and the critique that my improv professor gave is not to avoid the root on the one per se, but by the same token, don't hit "only" the root on the one. Jazz, pop, blues, whatever style, any chord tone is your friend if done tastefully. The only rule is that it should sound good to the listener.

 

[JRA]

to all the great advice, above, i would add: teach yourself what being 'musical' means. take risks 'like you own the place'! see what happens.

 

[Ekim]

This statement is always true... No need to hate truth. It may not be the way people typically think of language, but it is what it is...

Really? Then do please whip out a bass or piano and play me instructions on how to make a ham sandwich.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Really? Then do please whip out a bass or piano and play me instructions on how to make a ham sandwich.

Hmm...wasn't it Tony Levin who said he'd want to make spaghetti sauce with you to teach you everything he knows about playing the bass?

 

[Spin Doctor]

Really? Then do please whip out a bass or piano and play me instructions on how to make a ham sandwich.

Language is used to communicate ideas. Music is used to communicate a sentiment. If you don't get the concept of communication, then, nothing I can say will give it to you. But I can't see wasting time arguing the point. We all approach the same thing from different directions.

 

[franklindayala]

What can I do to start grooving?

How can I extend my knowledge of an arpeggio or basic theory (scales, intervals, rhythms, etc.) and make a bassline?.

Hey Cadeallen. Music is a language so the best way to start grooving is listen And try to play to some of the slow tempo music you love. With this you will start training you ear also.

Once you have a song, start finding out what scale, rhythms, etc. Are used in that song. Remember a 2 - 3 year old child that is learning to speak doesn't know nothing of language theory and he speaks by earing his environment.

 

[Craig Fones]

Funk and Groove isn't always just on the "one" but the great majority is. Sometimes a James Brown song will hit on the "Two". Like this example.

 

[Craig Fones]

Without the sheet music to this song I can't be sure where the beats are placed in the measure but it believe it's in 4/4 time. Going by the lyrics and assuming that "Make It" is sung on the first beat and "Funky" is sung on the second beat. The bass and the rest of the band is emphasizing the beat on the two while JB is singing "Funky".

 

[Spin Doctor]

Without the sheet music to this song I can't be sure where the beats are placed in the measure but it believe it's in 4/4 time. Going by the lyrics and assuming that "Make It" is sung on the first beat and "Funky" is sung on the second beat. The bass and the rest of the band is emphasizing the beat on the two while JB is singing "Funky".

Well I had commented on this, saying the bassline doesn't play off the two. But in the bridge, the bass does hit the two pretty solidly. I'd never really thought of that, so thank you for bringing it to my attention. So, I assumed that's the part you were talking about. Even if it wasn't, it is still a good example of how you can play around with the groove.

Anyway, I deleted my previous comment about the bass not really hitting the two. It doesn't overall, but the bassline in the bridge has that three note phrase, so I'll go with the benefit of the doubt.

But lyric-wise, the word "Funky" is the downbeat of 1. The phrase "Make it" is on the "4 - and" of the measure, like a pick up into the word Funky. So the groove you thought was hitting on the two, was actually still "the one". Unfortunately, you were counting it a bit wrong. But it happens sometimes... The spot where you "feel" the main pulse, is where "the one" will be.

 

[Lobster11]

Imagine you are at the ball park, and play your take on the national anthem. Or play a medley of your favorite blues licks. Or a medley of nursery songs, how about a jamming version of Mary Had a Little Lamb into Twinkle Twinkle and top it off with Three Blind Mice. Or maybe you're an Elvis fan, how about a medley of Elvis songs?

This is the best improvisation exercise I know: putting your own unique twist on familiar melodies and learning how to connect them musically.

For example, imagine it is your birthday. Play Happy Birthday to yourself and then a medley of songs from the year you were born.

This will train you to be a great improviser, I promise.

This is all great -- children's songs and other familiar melodies can be great practice tools -- but you gotta be able to walk before you can run. You can't start improvising on Twinkle Twinkle Little Star until you know how to play the song. And, in order to learn to improvise, you have to develop your ability to play by ear. In addition to learning some basic music theory (especially chords and common scales) and learning your fretboard, you want to work on some ear training.

One great way to do this is, as @Mushroo said, to pick a children's song, a TV show theme, or any other melody that is so etched into your brain that you can "hear" it in your head at any time without listening to a recording. Sit down with your bass and try to figure out how to play the melody. "Listen to" the first few notes in your head, and then try to figure out where they are on your fretboard. This will be slow going at first as you hunt around, note by note, trying to find the matching sounds, but you'll get better at it the more you do it. Once you've learned the whole song and can play it all the way through without any trouble, you can start experimenting with adding or subtracting notes, etc. But even if you don't do this, you will have learned a great deal by simply figuring out how to play the melody "by ear."

By the way, this is also a great way to work on learning scales, rather than simply playing scales up and down. In most songs like these, all of the notes will come from a particular scale. For example, Twinkle Twinkle uses all but one of the notes of the major scale. So, as you learn more about scales, you'll get better at guessing which notes are likely to appear in the melody, and learning how to play the melody will help you learn the sound of the scale and how to finger it on your bass.

 

[thewildest]

All great advice in this thread; such as suggested before, if you think of notes as letters and scales as words it is up to you to come up with phrases. Once you master improvising, the end goal is to express through notes what do you have on your mind, in a "zone" where scales and pre-stablished structures don't matter any more.

From a more practical angle, so you can absorb the rules behind "sounding good", I would pick a scale (C major) and record (looper, computer, cell phone) a basic rythm made of two notes (C and A). That would allow you to improvise using the C major scale (CDEFGAB) and the A minor pentatonic(ACDEG) (Along with dozens of other scales).

The exercise will make you generate more questions than answers (why C major?, why it sounds weird if I play Bb, etc) which I believe your teacher will be glad to cover.

I hope this helps

 

[biscuitz]

I have exactly the same problem as you, and what a coincidence, I have played for 2yrs too and have exactly the same problem: not knowing how to groove/improv. To tackle this, I want to a local bass instructor and he solved this big big problem in one lesson. So i hope this will be of some help to you.

He asked me to do one exercise, so-called "The One chord vamp". Basically, it is an exercise in Dm, and to simplify things, he asked me to use just the Dm pentatonic scale, which has just 5 notes. It is just 4 bars:

|Dm(header)|Dm(fill-in)|Dm(header)|Dm(fill-in)||

header: this means a simple groove pattern, in my case, just play 8 8th notes for the whole bar(D-D-D-D-...)
fill-in: just play anything with the notes in the Dm pentatonic scale

the point is, you keep returning to the basic groove after each bar of fill-in. At first, i will get lost, like still messing around in the fill-in when it's time to play the header again(sometimes i found myself still play the fill-in but it's already the 2nd beat of the header bar...but it's okay to be wrong, you are just trying/learning!). Try this a couple of times and you found yourself grooving/improvising. The point is not to have this "i don't know what is improv/groove" in your mind, just play. I complained to the instructor that i have no idea what was doing! In the fill-in part, i was just randomly playing some notes in the pentatonic scale, that's stupid! And his awesome answer "That's how you practice the (pentatonic) scale musically, just mess around with it" And then we tried the exercise a couple of times, he recorded a few of these attempts. I found my playing is not bad! Suddenly i'm improvising!!!

All in all, like other TBers said, it's as easy as just play. Do not overthink it You can actually make it even more simpler by just messing with the root&fifth. And i found it more interesting to play with a simple backing drum beat too. Hope this help!

 

[mambo4]

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"groove" is at least a much about time as it is about notes
can't hit the target if you don't know where it is.



in fact "groove" is about much more than notes...

 

[TedH]

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"groove" is at least a much about time as it is about notes
can't hit the target if you don't know where it is.

in fact "groove" is about much more than notes...

That graphic is really excellent.

 

[1stnamebassist]

One day I was channel surfing and came across the childrens show from way back when called Davey and Goliath. You know the one, the clay characters with the talking dog. Anyway the music at the beginning was playing and I had heard it a million times as a kid so it was buried in my brain. (A Mighty Fortress is our God).
Later that day I picked up my bass and spent a couple minutes figuring it out. Its all based on a major scale even using the major 7th. So as others have said sing or hear it in your head and try to figure it out can go a long way in helping you with improv. Fun to do too!