Double Bass Static/Distortion from Realist Copperhead on EUB

[Plastalmonus]

Hi guys,

I have done a search for issues with the Realist pickup but they all seem to be about losing highs or humming.

I recently got a third or fourth hand Riley EUB (Palatino) with a Realist Copperhead installed. I tried it out before buying it and don't recall any noise however I have to admit it was at quite a low volume when I demoed it.

Since I have started playing it more and tried recording I am hearing heaps of fuzz/distortion/white noise above the 1KHz mark whenever a note is played. It goes dead silent when I stop.

I can see that one of the raised bumps is not covered by the bridge and that quite a lot of copper is showing however it appears the bridge foot isn't wide enough to fully cover it.

Could this be causing the noise? Could it be that I knocked the bridge slightly when transporting it home, not enough to be noticeable but enough to cause contact issues with the pickup?

Has anybody else experience similar issues and could suggest as fix? This is my first EUB so I am not sure where to start.

I am open to taking it to a repair shop but wanted to troubleshoot the issue first.

I have attached an mp3 of the noise and some photos below:

 

[Sean Riddle]

Try centering the pickup some more. Both the copperhead and lifeline need total contact on all the elements to get a clean sound.

 

[Plastalmonus]

Try centering the pickup some more. Both the copperhead and lifeline need total contact on all the elements to get a clean sound.

The pickup is right up to the right hand edge of the black mount. Do you mean move the bridge foot to the left to cover the pickup more?

Otherwise would a very thin piece of wood under each foot that covers the whole pickup be a solution?

EDIT: Also thank you for your help.

 

[Sean Riddle]

The pickup is right up to the right hand edge of the black mount. Do you mean move the bridge foot to the left to cover the pickup more?

Otherwise would a very thin piece of wood under each foot that covers the whole pickup be a solution?

EDIT: Also thank you for your help.

The pickup is right up to the right hand edge of the black mount. Do you mean move the bridge foot to the left to cover the pickup more?

Otherwise would a very thin piece of wood under each foot that covers the whole pickup be a solution?

EDIT: Also thank you for your help.

Yes move it to the left. Should help. Also make sure your bridgefoot in general is making total contact with the foil.

 

[Wasnex]

These pickups degrade over time. I may just be time for a new one. I think the original Realist I had became staticy and the frequency response changed a bit before it totally stopped working.

Also the piezo elements on my NS Design bass were making a similar noise.

Check the output jack. I get this sort of noise with my wireless and traced it to the cable that I use to connect between the belt pack and bass. Basically if the barrel on one of the 1/4" plugs is slightly loose, it can vibrate on the threads and cause this sort of staticy sound.

 

[Wasnex]

Make sure the wire is not coming in contact with the face of your bass. The wires can be slightly microhonic, and if the wire is just barely touching the bass, it could be the source of the noise.

 

[Wasnex]

I just looked at the jack on your pickup and notices it's female. It could be the plug vibrating inside the jack as well. On my NS Design I used to use a rubber band to put a bit of tension on the plug so it would not vibrate in the jack.

 

[Plastalmonus]

Actually I have tested it some more and have noticed that:

1) With Cable A the sound is as recorded (static)
2) With Cable B it sounded fine but after a few minutes the volume dropped by half or more
3) With Cable C it played fine for about 10 minutes then I had to go back to work

These cables are fine with my other basses and amps. It seems it is something they are doing with the Realist.

@Wasnex the jack vibration could be it however the drop in volume in Test 2 makes me concerned the pickup may be failing.

Either way I will readjust it to make sure contact is fine as it could also be that.

My first foray into EUB is proving to be as fun as my first foray into tube heads

 

[oliebrice]

Realists do have limited lifespan - maybe 4 years on average (?) before they start to go wrong. Although as the bridge isn't covering one of the elements I doubt it ever worked well on that bass... to be honest it looks like the foot of the bridge might be too small for a realist to be a good option

 

[Ric Vice]

This is correct, I would also add that the Warranty is only 1 Year and generally they cannot be repaired if the leads to the element are shorting. Unfortunately, under the intense pressure of the bridge

foot the Realists eventually degrade. That's one of the reasons I went with something else. You can of course re-solder the 1/4" jack leads to test for that. I believe Double Midi has repaired the leads to

the element end of a piezo pickup, but that may be incorrect on my part.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

This is correct, I would also add that the Warranty is only 1 Year and generally they cannot be repaired if the leads to the element are shorting. Unfortunately, under the intense pressure of the bridge

foot the Realists eventually degrade. That's one of the reasons I went with something else. You can of course re-solder the 1/4" jack leads to test for that. I believe Double Midi has repaired the leads to

the element end of a piezo pickup, but that may be incorrect on my part.

I did something like that to a Shadow SH-950 which is an Underwood clone, but I was lucky that it was possible and I think it was the shielding that got detached, so I didn’t need to touch the piezo element itself.
On the other hand I did experiment a lot with piezo disks. There is a very thin layer of silver on the ceramic and solder points to it can easily get detached and take the silver coating below the solder with it. You can repair it with liquid silver paste like used to repair broken PCB traces.

What might happen with the Realist is a broken piezo ceramic due to the high bridge foot pressure and the “disc” inside pressing on the ceramic. This is not repairable. Also detaching the copper might take the silver coating with the sticky glue (but I think that part needs to be isolated and the copper only contacts the brass disc).

 

[Wasnex]

I did something like that to a Shadow SH-950 which is an Underwood clone, but I was lucky that it was possible and I think it was the shielding that got detached, so I didn’t need to touch the piezo element itself.
On the other hand I did experiment a lot with piezo disks. There is a very thin layer of silver on the ceramic and solder points to it can easily get detached and take the silver coating below the solder with it. You can repair it with liquid silver paste like used to repair broken PCB traces.

What might happen with the Realist is a broken piezo ceramic due to the high bridge foot pressure and the “disc” inside pressing on the ceramic. This is not repairable. Also detaching the copper might take the silver coating with the sticky glue (but I think that part needs to be isolated and the copper only contacts the brass disc).

FYI both Gollihur and Lemur websites indicate the Copperhead uses piezo film rather than a piezo disc. Is this inaccurate?

 

[DoubleMIDI]

FYI both Gollihur and Lemur websites indicate the Copperhead uses piezo film rather than a piezo disc. Is this inaccurate?

To be honest I don’t know, I thought it might have been a brass with piezo ceramic like the buzzer discs (I cut the piezo discs into form to fit the bridge foot of an EUB, but a slight bending might be possible).

If it is piezo film, the disk of the earlier copper Realists (which marked the top) might have cut into the foil. The foil is delicate and should be sandwiched by a robust material.

I think the Shadow SH-965NFX is a lot better and more robust than the Realist. Piezo film but sandwiched in a thick foil, impedance buffer directly at the sensor foil and could be used with one or two sensors. Buffered signals are mixed, better for the impedance than passively mixed piezos.
Only the output signal is a bit weak compared to other pickups. Highs are not strong but present and can be boosted if needed. Tone control (high cut) is mostly useless. Volume pot is handy.

Don’t have any wear out problem with the NFX and it is on my bass for at least four years, maybe even longer.
Like it if I need to bow and pluck like with the tango band and have almost no setup time for amplification.