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Steppenwolf- who's on first bass??
- Thread starter So Low Bass
- Start date
The idea that studio musicians were used is almost as silly as the idea of using no bass at all (just plain CHEAP, that's all). ALL of the Musicians in Steppenwolf were superior musicians, as their recorded live cuts prove.
OK, back to the SOUND....
Flats for sure, Ps and/or Rics, 15 in speakers (at least), upper positions.
Does anyone know: How was it recorded? Was the bass injected? What kind of bass amps were used?
OK, back to the SOUND....
Flats for sure, Ps and/or Rics, 15 in speakers (at least), upper positions.
Does anyone know: How was it recorded? Was the bass injected? What kind of bass amps were used?
Saw Steppenwolf at the "Sound Factory" in '68. I remember it was dark in the venue and John Kay had on sunglasses and I thought.."how in the hell can he see his fretboard?".
Someone told me that he had real bad eyesight also.
I still got the hand bill from the gig.
Back in those days, multiple bands played.
The Ace of Cups and Initial Shock were the openers.
We play three of Steppenwolf's songs. The Pusher (I get to use my tremelo), Sookie Sookie and of course BTBW.
The first two LPs define the band. All the later stuff, I couldn't get in to.
Someone told me that he had real bad eyesight also.
I still got the hand bill from the gig.
Back in those days, multiple bands played.
The Ace of Cups and Initial Shock were the openers.
We play three of Steppenwolf's songs. The Pusher (I get to use my tremelo), Sookie Sookie and of course BTBW.
The first two LPs define the band. All the later stuff, I couldn't get in to.
That could very well be a case where she was brought in to double bass parts. The Doors of course were unique in that they didn't have a bass player.
I can easily imagine a mixdown session with that Rhodes piano bass yielding a less than desirable sound.
So maybe her parts were laid down, and then mixed in and out of various places later, or even recorded over?
I mean - look at the stories of the Police - where Sting and Copeland would alternately sneak into the studio late at night and record over each others tracks! (synth, primarily)
According to lore, Copeland won out, and Sting got so ticked off that he stormed out of the studio and left the country, not contacting anyone in the band or management for several months.
Info: The Steppenwolf site claims that he is both legally blind and colorblind.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
This thread has brought back a lot of memories and answered a bunch of questions. Thanks to the posters who have cleared a few things up.
I was a fan from the beginning. Had all the vinyl including at least a couple of Sparrow LPs. Sadly I never got to see the real Steppenwolf.
Funny thing noting today's day and date, is that on one somewhat wasted 4th of July weekend in 1979 (I'm pretty sure it was 79) I did see the "John Kay and Steppenwolf" act. As stated, this was just John and a few hired guns rehashing the classic material. I don't remember if they used a bass player or maybe covered it on keyboards. This was at a place called the Harbor House in Lynn, Ma where we had gone to escape all of the 4th of July congestion in Boston. The show was fun but nothing special.
The next night was actually much more exciting with Mission of Burma playing one of their first gigs and opening for The Humans from Santa Cruz, Ca.
All my records are long lost but if I sit in a quiet place, I can hear Steppenwolf playing in my head in remarkable detail. I guess I listened to those records a lot.
Peace,
S
I was a fan from the beginning. Had all the vinyl including at least a couple of Sparrow LPs. Sadly I never got to see the real Steppenwolf.
Funny thing noting today's day and date, is that on one somewhat wasted 4th of July weekend in 1979 (I'm pretty sure it was 79) I did see the "John Kay and Steppenwolf" act. As stated, this was just John and a few hired guns rehashing the classic material. I don't remember if they used a bass player or maybe covered it on keyboards. This was at a place called the Harbor House in Lynn, Ma where we had gone to escape all of the 4th of July congestion in Boston. The show was fun but nothing special.
The next night was actually much more exciting with Mission of Burma playing one of their first gigs and opening for The Humans from Santa Cruz, Ca.
All my records are long lost but if I sit in a quiet place, I can hear Steppenwolf playing in my head in remarkable detail. I guess I listened to those records a lot.
Peace,
S
Steppenwolf played their own instruments, they didn't have Carol Kaye or anyone else coming in. They were excellent musicians, all of them, and it would be absurd to think they needed someone to come in and help shore up their performances. In fact, a few of them actually had to help out other artists (incognito, of course) because they were of such high caliber. Producer Gabriel Mekler used Steppenwolf drummer Jerry Edmonton, organist Goldy McJohn, and guitarist Michael Monarch on Janis' 'Kosmic Blues' album for several tracks. All uncredited of course.
Steppenwolf ('68); Steppenwolf The Second ('68) - Rushton Moreve on bass
At Your Birthday Party ('69); Early Steppenwolf ('67/'69 release); Monster ('69); Live ('70) - Nick St Nicholas on bass
7 ('70); For Ladies Only ('71) - George Biondo on bass
Rushton was extremely creative with his bass lines (influenced by the Mothers). Nick was a fine bassist and a great stage persona. George was creative and solid, and a fantastic singer. All were wonderful in their own way and all brought something to the table... and all played on the records (sorry Carol or whoever else).
Steppenwolf ('68); Steppenwolf The Second ('68) - Rushton Moreve on bass
At Your Birthday Party ('69); Early Steppenwolf ('67/'69 release); Monster ('69); Live ('70) - Nick St Nicholas on bass
7 ('70); For Ladies Only ('71) - George Biondo on bass
Rushton was extremely creative with his bass lines (influenced by the Mothers). Nick was a fine bassist and a great stage persona. George was creative and solid, and a fantastic singer. All were wonderful in their own way and all brought something to the table... and all played on the records (sorry Carol or whoever else).
Thanks for dredging this one up, bucka001. Steppenwolf was probably my favorite band when I was in my earlier teens. I wore Steppenwolf Gold OUT! Great headphones album, especially The Pusher. Didn't know until a couple of years ago that Rushton Moreve was the bass player on the first 2 albums. His playing and his sound were a big influence on my bassing. Shame he's no longer with us.
I would add my opinion as well that Steppenwolf played on their own recordings right from the start. It's to their credit that people would believe that those tracks were played by session men. But there is a very definite 'band sound' that's unique and not the same as what you'd hear from the Wrecking Crew. And it would have been the Wrecking Crew as Steppenwolf was a West Coast band and recorded out there.
Having just read this whole thread, I have a question. Is X Wolf George Biondo? If so, I'd just mention that I also dug your playing! Steppenwolf 7 is still in my vinyl collection.
I would add my opinion as well that Steppenwolf played on their own recordings right from the start. It's to their credit that people would believe that those tracks were played by session men. But there is a very definite 'band sound' that's unique and not the same as what you'd hear from the Wrecking Crew. And it would have been the Wrecking Crew as Steppenwolf was a West Coast band and recorded out there.
Having just read this whole thread, I have a question. Is X Wolf George Biondo? If so, I'd just mention that I also dug your playing! Steppenwolf 7 is still in my vinyl collection.
My first bigtime rock concert! 1970 at the Chicago Civic Opera house. Odd venue for rock. My friend brought his cassette deck and recorded it, the music playback was terrible but Kay talking about Operation Intercept on the Mexican Border drying up the weed supply came through fine as the intro to "The Pusher."
They definitely had a bass player, I remember him watching the reflection of the stage lights off his bass onto the wall. Far out, man.
Yep, Steppenwolf 7 was a great album. Earschplitten Loudenboomer!
They definitely had a bass player, I remember him watching the reflection of the stage lights off his bass onto the wall. Far out, man.
Yep, Steppenwolf 7 was a great album. Earschplitten Loudenboomer!
Great thread, thanks for the comments. Loved this band while coming of age as a teenager in LA during the late 60s/early 70s. Land of KHJ Radio, the Real Don Steele and Wolfman Jack. A ooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!
Nashville does that all the time[session players]Read the liner notes from most country cd's and it's all the same guys playing. Brett Mason[guitar] plays on almost EVERYTHING. Perhaps that's why David Hungate[Toto] moved to Nashville ? Plus those guys can go in and do a whole cd in about an hour,then go to another studio and do another.
Hi Bass_case,
I’ve attached a review of that concert (your first as a spectator
). From the Chicago Tribune. I work in Chicago, that opera house is still there. Whenever I walk by I briefly look at it and wish I could do a “time machine” thing for a few hours and see that gig (I was 5 in ‘70, lol!). As a Steppenwolf historian (I helped VH-1 and Bravo on their Wolf documentaries and received credit on both), I have to ask if your friend’s tape still exists. Would be so awesome (if you’re even still in touch). Thanks. Jim CAttachments
Another zombie thread!
Just for the record, the bassists who played on the Doors' albums are pretty well known. No secrets there.
The debut album is divided: some tracks are Ray Manzarek's keyboard bass, others are Larry Knechtel. You can tell by listening which are which. Tracks like "Soul Kitchen" have that definite bass-guitar thump, while others, especially the more improvised tracks like "Light My Fire" and "The End", have a different, less thumpy bass sound from Ray's keyboard.
Strange Days: Doug Lubahn (a member of Dallas Taylor's band Clear Light, also signed to Elektra at the time) on most tracks, playing either a 1950s Gibson EB or a Fender Precision. He started with the Gibson (its distinctive tone is heard in the title song), but its headstock broke off one day when he left it leaning against his Ampeg amp, which, being on wheels, promptly rolled away and dumped the Gibson on the floor. The Fender replaced the Gibson. Ray's keyboard bass is definitely on "When the Music's Over".
Waiting for the Sun: Doug Lubahn. This isn't my favorite Doors album; I'd have to listen to it again to see if Ray's keyboard bass is used anywhere.
The Soft Parade: Doug Lubahn on the tracks recorded first. Then he suddenly decided to move to New York, so Harvey Brooks was brought in to finish the album.
Morrison Hotel: Ray Neapolitan on most tracks. Lonnie Mack (yes, the Lonnie Mack) on "Roadhouse Blues".
L.A. Woman: Jerry Scheff on all tracks.
Other session musicians on Doors albums:
The Soft Parade: Various horn and string players on some tracks (sarcastically labeled "The La Cienega Symphony" by the Doors' road manager).
Morrison Hotel: John Sebastian of the Lovin' Spoonful on harmonica on "Roadhouse Blues" (credited as "G. Pugliese" for contractual reasons).
L.A. Woman: Marc Benno on rhythm guitar on some tracks.
I think that's about it, though it's possible I forgot someone. But anyone who thinks that Ray, Robby, and John didn't play on the Doors' albums must be deaf. The Doors had a distinctive, individual sound that only came from those guys. Session players, no matter how good they were, could not have faked that. There is a certain similarity between all the Wrecking Crew recordings. It's the same extended group of musicians and it shows, regardless of whether they were backing the Monkees, the 5th Dimension, the Association, or whoever. There isn't even one song by the Doors that has that Wrecking Crew sound, nor any Wrecking Crew track that sounds like the Doors.
Just for the record, the bassists who played on the Doors' albums are pretty well known. No secrets there.
The debut album is divided: some tracks are Ray Manzarek's keyboard bass, others are Larry Knechtel. You can tell by listening which are which. Tracks like "Soul Kitchen" have that definite bass-guitar thump, while others, especially the more improvised tracks like "Light My Fire" and "The End", have a different, less thumpy bass sound from Ray's keyboard.
Strange Days: Doug Lubahn (a member of Dallas Taylor's band Clear Light, also signed to Elektra at the time) on most tracks, playing either a 1950s Gibson EB or a Fender Precision. He started with the Gibson (its distinctive tone is heard in the title song), but its headstock broke off one day when he left it leaning against his Ampeg amp, which, being on wheels, promptly rolled away and dumped the Gibson on the floor. The Fender replaced the Gibson. Ray's keyboard bass is definitely on "When the Music's Over".
Waiting for the Sun: Doug Lubahn. This isn't my favorite Doors album; I'd have to listen to it again to see if Ray's keyboard bass is used anywhere.
The Soft Parade: Doug Lubahn on the tracks recorded first. Then he suddenly decided to move to New York, so Harvey Brooks was brought in to finish the album.
Morrison Hotel: Ray Neapolitan on most tracks. Lonnie Mack (yes, the Lonnie Mack) on "Roadhouse Blues".
L.A. Woman: Jerry Scheff on all tracks.
Other session musicians on Doors albums:
The Soft Parade: Various horn and string players on some tracks (sarcastically labeled "The La Cienega Symphony" by the Doors' road manager).
Morrison Hotel: John Sebastian of the Lovin' Spoonful on harmonica on "Roadhouse Blues" (credited as "G. Pugliese" for contractual reasons).
L.A. Woman: Marc Benno on rhythm guitar on some tracks.
I think that's about it, though it's possible I forgot someone. But anyone who thinks that Ray, Robby, and John didn't play on the Doors' albums must be deaf. The Doors had a distinctive, individual sound that only came from those guys. Session players, no matter how good they were, could not have faked that. There is a certain similarity between all the Wrecking Crew recordings. It's the same extended group of musicians and it shows, regardless of whether they were backing the Monkees, the 5th Dimension, the Association, or whoever. There isn't even one song by the Doors that has that Wrecking Crew sound, nor any Wrecking Crew track that sounds like the Doors.
The idea that studio musicians were used is almost as silly as the idea of using no bass at all (just plain CHEAP, that's all). ALL of the Musicians in Steppenwolf were superior musicians, as their recorded live cuts prove.
OK, back to the SOUND....
Flats for sure, Ps and/or Rics, 15 in speakers (at least), upper positions.
Does anyone know: How was it recorded? Was the bass injected? What kind of bass amps were used?
I HAVE THE SAME QUESTIONS! For several years we've seen the discussions about who was playing on these recordings, but the question here isn't so much who, as HOW---that sound on the first two albums, and to a slightly lesser degree on the later ones, is quite unlike any other rock bass sound I've heard on a recording, whether from that 'era' or later. One which came close was the early "Chicago" recordings with Peter Cetera---I had always understood that Chicago's producer typically ran Cetera directly "into the board" and that had produced the distinctive tone, or helped with it. Also, this has nothing to do with their 'live' sound---I'm talking about the tone on the recordings, specifically the first release, "Steppenwolf" and the next one, "The Second".
Also, as an aside, who's bright idea was it to divide the long medley on side II of "The Second" into individual tracks on the CD releases---totally screws up the continuity and flow of a great medley!
Cheers!
