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Double Bass Steve LaSpina

#21
Nope, can't say that I have checked out that Martino record but I'll keep my eyes & ears open, especially now. I'm only familiar with that one Jim Hall record -- from '89 I believe. The reason I was asking you for a benchmark, a reference point, is 'cause based on what I hear there those words like "sterile", etc. make me wonder if we're listening to the same guy.

For example, I mentioned in my first post on this thread that I was listening to Bemsha Swing from that record as I wrote. Well, here it is a couple of days later and -- OK, I'm familiar with the record, true -- but I've got the first 8 bars or so of LaSpina's solo still sitting pretty clearly in my head. To my ears it's melodic and memorable; that soloist in that moment is clearly feeling music and not thinking about how to impress people.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I hear some Steve Swallow-esque aspects to that solo and to his sound in that solo. And -- yep -- the Swallow sound I'm thinking of right now is pretty electric. Not Flea electric; Steve Swallow electric. But I don't think many of us would listen to the LaSpina solo and think it was anything but DB.

And like I said before: his notes are real long and bleed into each other almost.

Anyway, those are some of things I like about a player I hope to hear more of. I'm glad ole FEW QUALMS mentioned him a year or so on a list of happening modern players. Some of us pay attention to stuff like that, y'know, and check it out....

I'll look for the Martino record.
 
#23
Confucius said:
Haha ... you are such a Mother Fuqua. Has something changed that makes your opinion now somehow more valid than mine?
Click to expand...

I gotta say: Confucious, this is almost exactly the same kinda vibe and complaint about me on another thread, by another person. This other cat said something about the fact that he figured that I figured that my opinion was more valid than his because of my 50 years in the business. What a bunch of ***!
But I DO think Ed's opinion is more valid than yours.
He has a bass to go with his bow.
Ed is a real NYC working jazz bass player
I've heard Ed play on the TBDB Sampler
I like his playing.

I invite you and this other guy I mentioned to post a sample of your playing on the Sampler, so we can really hear why both of your opinions are valid.
 
#24
Paul Warburton said:
I gotta say: Confucious, this is almost exactly the same kinda vibe and complaint about me on another thread, by another person. This other cat said something about the fact that he figured that I figured that my opinion was more valid than his because of my 50 years in the business. What a bunch of ***!
But I DO think Ed's opinion is more valid than yours.
He has a bass to go with his bow.
Ed is a real NYC working jazz bass player
I've heard Ed play on the TBDB Sampler
I like his playing.

I invite you and this other guy I mentioned to post a sample of your playing on the Sampler, so we can really hear why both of your opinions are valid.
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Hey Paul,

Congrats on 50 years in the business! Thats quite a lot more years than Jimmy Blanton or Scott Lafaro even saw in life. I am sure there are people who could learn a lot from you. And it makes whatever you say worthy of consideration -- but at the end of the day, everyone has their own musical taste and (hopefully) evolving ideas about what they want to hear. It is not something that can or should be codified in a living tradition where the best players are the ones who find their own unique voice. And no group of people holds a monopoly on validity that we need to submit to for approval. The music accepts everyone.
 
#26
Confucius said:
Hey Paul,

Congrats on 50 years in the business! Thats quite a lot more years than Jimmy Blanton or Scott Lafaro even saw in life. I am sure there are people who could learn a lot from you. And it makes whatever you say worthy of consideration -- but at the end of the day, everyone has their own musical taste and (hopefully) evolving ideas about what they want to hear. It is not something that can or should be codified in a living tradition where the best players are the ones who find their own unique voice. And no group of people holds a monopoly on validity that we need to submit to for approval. The music accepts everyone.
Click to expand...

Thanks, and I agree on the above point you make...in most cases. However, when someone starts taking jabs at players of Steve LaSpina's calibre, as well as Mr. Fuqua's, I need to hear what you can do to make your point valid to me.
 
#27
CONFUSED, US? - PW, like I said, I have no problem with him having his own opinion. He does seem to be able to read things that aren't actually there, but apparently doesn't like having that pointed out. Be that as it may, hearing about two records that Steve is on that raise such a strong adverse opinion in somebody does raise the question that Damon asked. If only because the body of work that I'm familiar with in no way can be described by the two adjectives used. And the answer given is less that satisfactory, in essence all it says is "well he's flashy and tasteless, so you should be able to tell that I lke players who aren't flashy and tasteless."

There's a funny NYer cartoon, mother and young son standing in front of a painting in what is obviously the Met, and the caption says "Instead of saying 'It sucks', you could say 'it doesn't speak to me'."
I know when I was starting out, there was a lot I couldn't hear. I could hear velocity, and I had a bunch of NHOP records. I knew PC was "supposed" to be important so I had some of those records, etc. But cats like Bill Crow or Sonny Dallas or Sam Jones, as far as I could hear all they were doing was thumping quarter notes, so I never could figure out why they ever got any gigs. Well, as soon as I could start hearing the LINE I understood. But before that I propounded all kinds of insults - lame, nothing going on, not happening, blah, blah, blah. But your ear changes.

It's kind of interesting that CAN'T FLUSH THIS doesn't have the question raised for himself "well here's a cat I don't like and think sounds all electric and tasteless, but here's these other cats who are saying QUITE SPECIFICALLY the opposite. Gee, maybe I should check out those records?"

Which, KHAN, is kind of Damon's and Paul's point (not really mine, cause I could give a ****), they want to know - are you hearing the same thing as them and drawing a different conclusion? One man's meat being another man's poisson and all. Cause just like the film critic that sees the same movie as you do and has the opposite reaction informs your decision about whether or not to continue to read their work, well I'm sure you can work out the rest.
That doesn't say that the critic doesn't have a right to continue to form opinions. It doesn't say anything about whether or not some will find the opinons valid. It DOES allow one to place a personal value on the utility of those opinions.
 
#30
Ed,

From where I stand - you are the one making a lot of assumptions. I would be very open minded to listening to other recordings -- especially the Jim Hall ones. This Pat Martino could be LaSpinas worst recording for all I know. I read the liner notes the other day and LaSpina even says something about having volume issues with Martino and that he had never played upright bass that loud before. He also said something about having to learn the material on the gig. Also Martino himself is not the most subtle of players and as leader he sets the tone. So it very well may not be LaSpinas finest hour. Listen to the record and tell me you disagree with what I said. Otherwise we are talking about different things I think.

That record just didn't speak to me. Better?
 
#31
I may very well agree with you that this was LaSpina's worst moment ever. However, listening to that record, given the number of records that I have him on AND the number of times I've heard him play in person, I doubt seriously that I will suddenly draw the conclusion that he's a tasteless and electric sounding player with no substance.

QIN FU SHUSH said:
From where I stand - you are the one making a lot of assumptions.
Click to expand...
Which shall pass through the centuries un-named? The only assumption that I can see that I've made is that you've made up your mind about this guy based on 2 records you don't like. Fine, I feel the same way about Chico Freeman. But you didn't say "Are we talking about the same guy? He sounds awful on the two records I have." Or " Maybe I should check out some other records, cause he doesn't sound like ANYTHING you guys are talking about on the records I have." Nope, it's "I heard two records and this guy sucks." If that's your opinion, you're welcome to it.
 
#32
The only time I saw Steve play was about 15 years ago at a place in Cambridge called The !369.He was w. Quest,w. Dave Leibman, Richie Beirach, and Billy Hart.
This might of been his first gig w. the group [Regular bassist's are George Mraz and Ron McClure] He was reading and Liebman was kinda staring at him all night w. not a real happy face. :(
Did not change my opinion of him that night or since then.Steve is a well rounded Musician w. a great sound [His amp sound that night was fantastic !!! Big rig, but it sounded sweet w. this group.]
I wish we could just talk about what we like about Steve's playing in this thread because we need to hear about some of the other cats out there.There are so many great artists on Double Bass that need to be listened to.Being positive in a thread like this can only help.If you don't like sometime in his playing then thats cool, but I think we should try to stick to the topic of Steve and enjoy his talent.
 
#33
Wow.... I didn't mean to shut everyone up... So I'll start by asking if anyone has heard some of those expensive CD's that Steve is a leader on ? [Also as a composer] I think these are on some European label and the personal might be his ECT co-hurts like Fred Hersh and Jeff Hirshfield.[Others of course] How is his bass recorded and are his compositions like the stuff w. ETC ? I remember the CD jackets have a nice picture of Steve w. his bass.
 
#34
Mark Carlsen said:
Wow.... I didn't mean to shut everyone up... So I'll start by asking if anyone has heard some of those expensive CD's that Steve is a leader on ? [Also as a composer] I think these are on some European label and the personal might be his ECT co-hurts like Fred Hersh and Jeff Hirshfield.[Others of course] How is his bass recorded and are his compositions like the stuff w. ETC ? I remember the CD jackets have a nice picture of Steve w. his bass.
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Haven't heard those, but I'd like to. Looked on his website, they're all on Steeplechase. They list around $18, but you can find them sometimes at CDNow or CDUniverse for $14. Many of the early ones are with Marc Copland on piano, and they all have Hirshfield on drums. Fred Hersch plays on Distant Dream.
 
#35
Good to see the thread about Steve- I am currently studying with him- he's an unbelievable player and great person. I used to see him live occasionally in Delaware Water Gap PA and even though i knew very little about music or bass, I knew there was something great about it.

I know he used that French bass mentioned here forever, and i believe it was Oliv's he said he used on the more gut sounding things.
He uses red spirocores and plays a wan bernadel bass for his recordings gigs and the czech ease for travel. the wan bernadel is amazing, he really does use it first, he does not get a cut or anything- his raves about it are absolutely genuine- he would be a great person to go see live.. for a million reasons, but especially if you want to see how these 4k basses actually can sound.

re: the quest/liebman thing, i'm sure that was coincidental or just the way lieb was looking or something (he can look real intense, obviously, and is definitely not easy to read in that way). he really digs laspina- i am studying with him specifically on liebmans recommendation.. i mean there are some heavy cats within range obviously, Liebman said he was the guy to go to (i didnt know Steve lived close).
 
#36
I had no idea people would talk about that recording or others thinking my playing was tasteless and sterlie.I have to say it makes me chuckle. For anyone who is curious... Yes it was twenty years ago ( eighties I think) and it was an exhausting week long gig/recording.This was my first time working with Pat and he was playing extremely loud. I was more use to playing at a lower volume ( Jim Hall's semi- acoustic volume). One should also be aware that the pickup used on that date was a fishman (not my fav). That was how they recorded me direct to tape. One should also be aware that my many of my solo's where edited and many where parts of different takes from different nights which where put together to make one solo. Musically it wasn't my finest hour. Enough of that. I don't really care what Confucius thinks, his thoughts are his own and he can speak his mind. Maybe.... he can share with all of us what some of his recordings are so we can hear him. He may be a wonderful player. I am sure that anyone who has recorded, has tracks that sound better than others. I know I do! I have recorded as a sideman on many, many different recordings and some of them have been better examples than others of my playing. Some recordings i wish never happen but that life in the big city. My favorites are These Rooms with Jim Hall-Tom Harrell-Joey Barron and a trio recording called ETC with Fred Hersch and Jeff Hirshfield. I did a recording under my own name for the Ram label called the Road Ahead, this was a label out of Italy ( which is gone now). It was also a good date for me. There are some CD's with Steeplechase under my own name that I also like. A true professional knows that when you record, there are making different elements that can enter into each recording some good and others bad and all out of your control. Each time I just play best I can at that monement in time. If people like my playing fine, if not thats Ok too. :)

I saw that someone was wondering about strings. Back in the late 80's while working with Jim Hall I was searching for a darker sound that I thought would work with Jim's sound. I had a bass at that time that was was kind of bright. This was my dad's bass and I remember when I was a kid he used a string called red o ray, made by kaplen. This was a gut string wrapped with a red plastic. These strings where made by the same company that makes the strings Charlie Haden was using. Golden Spiral I think was the name. I loved the sound so from 1988 to about 1990 I used them on the G and D. Then the company was bought out and the price of the string went threw the roof. These strings would go dead every three months or so and it was costing too much. At that time, I went back to steel. I have used the olive's but, I do a fair amount of recording for people that requires me to do a lot of arco work. Most producers where not happy with the gut bowed sound so I stopped using gut. I have used thomasik's orchestra for over tens years. I am surpised to see my name mention here because I really never thought anyone would be talking about my playing, good , bad or whatever.

I want to thank you all for the kind words and even for the not so kind words. Peace and Happiness to all you bassist out there. Music is food that feeds my soul and I listen to everyone and always look for the good. Music and playing the bass is an Infinite Search and I know I will always be searching out ways to improve my playing while treasuring the journey. Peace.......SL
 
#40
Mark Carlsen said:
Welcome to TB Steve,and thanks for your comments.
Could you tell us about those early years in NY alittle more?
I hear alot of George Mraz in your playing back then ...Did you study w. him or just transcribe some of his solo's.I think I have you on a couple Marian McPartland sides and your style is very simular.Many Thanks.....
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Years ago there was a great rooom in NYC called bradley's. I had just moved to NYC from Chicago and I would go there every night. I was lucky enough to hear just about every great bassist you could think of play at that club. bradley's was a duo room, George would work there a lot. I really dug his playing and I am sure I pick up many ideas form him. We also became friends over the years. He is one great bassist. I always got to hear Red Mitchell Sam Jones, Micheal Moore, Rufus Reid, Ron Carter,Eddie Gomez, Ray Drumond and the list goes on and on. That was an education one couldn't pay money for. For me it was like a Jazz Disneyland.
 

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