Double Bass Strange cross sign

[AndersLasson]

I am trying to play the “Gavotte” in the third Vance book, and in the last measure there is a strange cross sign, see below. Can anyone explain how to play it?

Left hand pizz?
Only the second middle G to be plucked?
Pluck or bow the third lowest G?

 

[AndersLasson]

Now with the attachment.

 

[Phil Rowan]

Since the notes on either side are to be played arco, that sign means “left hand pizz”.

 

[turf3]

I'd interpret that as "muted".

 

[Anne Millington]

Yes, everything bowed except the second G, which is a left hand pizz.

 

[neilG]

I'd interpret that as "muted".

Used for horn players only, as far as I know.

 

[turf3]

Used for horn players only, as far as I know.

Well, in the context:

staccato arco note
pizz note
staccato arco note

It seems that rather than letting that pizz note ring, it might well be palm-muted (pull the note with the left hand and mute quickly with the right? Having trouble thinking exactly how this would go) Anyway, if I saw that, that's what I would think.

Are there places in strings music where a mute (now I'm thinking of the real "con sordino" mute) is rapidly applied and removed, to make a timbre change note by note rather than for long passages, where you couldn't write "con sordino" and "senza sordino" everywhere, but you would have room for the little "X" and "O" like brass players use?

 

[turf3]

I should follow this last post by admitting that it's been 45 years since I played in an orchestra, and when I did, I wasn't playing a string instrument; so there should be many people here with more recent and wide-ranging experience of reading orchestral parts for violin family instruments.

 

[neilG]

Are there places in strings music where a mute (now I'm thinking of the real "con sordino" mute) is rapidly applied and removed, to make a timbre change note by note rather than for long passages, where you couldn't write "con sordino" and "senza sordino" everywhere, but you would have room for the little "X" and "O" like brass players use?

Not that I've ever seen. I'm married to a horn player: those marks are all over the place. Horn players can hand mute note to note. Unless it's in the instructions to a piece, no string player would interpret that mark as "muted".

 

[Anne Millington]

Most players will write in a mark above the staff to remind them: an E with teeth pointing down for mute on, and teeth pointing up for mute off. I am surprised not to see it in my Finale markings, as it is so useful. One can always use shorter text such as the aforesaid "mute on/off" or some such.

I didn't know about the x and o for brass marking. Cool!

 

[the_Ryan]

Well, in the context:

staccato arco note
pizz note
staccato arco note

It seems that rather than letting that pizz note ring, it might well be palm-muted (pull the note with the left hand and mute quickly with the right? Having trouble thinking exactly how this would go) Anyway, if I saw that, that's what I would think.

Are there places in strings music where a mute (now I'm thinking of the real "con sordino" mute) is rapidly applied and removed, to make a timbre change note by note rather than for long passages, where you couldn't write "con sordino" and "senza sordino" everywhere, but you would have room for the little "X" and "O" like brass players use?

It takes too long to put on and take off a mute to do that, even if you’re using a Tourte mute that stays on the afterlengths when it’s removed from the bridge. It’s not like a plunger where the “off” and “on” positions are a wrist movement.

In the OP the “+” just means a LH pizz, there’s no muting or damping (dampening?) from the RH happening at all.

 

[turf3]

It takes too long to put on and take off a mute to do that, even if you’re using a Tourte mute that stays on the afterlengths when it’s removed from the bridge. It’s not like a plunger where the “off” and “on” positions are a wrist movement.

Yeh, but the passage indicated I think you could Palm-mute the note marked with the cross.

 

[the_Ryan]

Yeh, but the passage indicated I think you could Palm-mute the note marked with the cross.

It’s less of a palm mute and more about cutting the note off with a different LH finger quickly after playing it since it’s marked staccato. I don’t think I’ve ever seen palm muting or Rocco Prestia-style muting notated in a part before.

 

[Co.]

There are cases in contemporary music, where strings are indicated to be muted. Either to cut off a ringing sound, or to mute the pitch of the string for percussive sounds.
Usually the sign used for this looks like a small coda sign and usually it is explained somewhere in the score.
In not so contemporary music the + sign is usually either a fingering (thumb) or a left hand pizz. In this case, it is certainly a left hand pizz.

 

[gnypp45]

Let me offer yet another interpretation: "+" means thumb, so staying in position and pressing the "G" on the A-string with the LH thumb, then playing the last note also pizzicato.

 

[Co.]

Let me offer yet another interpretation: "+" means thumb, so staying in position and pressing the "G" on the A-string with the LH thumb, then playing the last note also pizzicato.

Yeah, or maybe the + means, you can add any note ad lib. There is always room for interpretation.

 

[neilG]

There is always room for interpretation.

Not really. There is a well-established meaning for this symbol, especially wth "pizz" marked above it. It's a left hand pizz.

 

[Anne Millington]

Here is more than I personally ever knew re left-hand pizz and the + sign, replete with examples. Then for gravy, we have the * sign, for the "whack". I use both techniques as described in the article, but did not know there was a crowd-sourced sign for the "whack".

Cello Left Hand Pizzicato – Cello Fun

 

[Co.]

Not really. There is a well-established meaning for this symbol, especially wth "pizz" marked above it. It's a left hand pizz.

My response wasn't serious. You might read the post, I replied to.

 

[AndersLasson]

Here is more than I personally ever knew re left-hand pizz and the + sign, replete with examples. Then for gravy, we have the * sign, for the "whack". I use both techniques as described in the article, but did not know there was a crowd-sourced sign for the "whack".

Cello Left Hand Pizzicato – Cello Fun

”Whack” == hammer-on?