Double Bass String height difference for arco

[Swampyankee2]

I had my Kay bass repaired and set up by a local luthier. I'm trying to learn to use the bow but it seems difficult to bow the D string without hitting either adjacent string. The bridge seems flat between the G, D, and A strings. Ive experimentally shimmed the D string to raise it slightly at the bridge and it helps a bit but I still have trouble not hitting adjacent strings. Could the cut of the bridge be improved to help?

 

[Lee Moses]

You are describing a struggle that every arco player has to deal with, regardless of setup. But to my eye, that bridge does look unusually flat between the top 3 strings.

 

[SAlcott]

Yep. It needs to be redone.

 

[Anne Millington]

It should be a pretty quick fix.

 

[John Chambliss]

No offense, but you posted about this same issue almost a year ago. Have you had any adjustments made since that time? TB members may have other recommendations if we know your location.

 

[LouisF]

Is the bridge on upside down? Usually the label/stamp faces up toward the scroll.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Your bridge is crowned to account for the Rhomburg bevel in the fingerboard. If the bridge crown had a nice round orchestra curve the A string would be too low and choke out.

The cure is to have the bevel planed out of the fingerboard and the bridge crown adjusted. Not cheap, but when done you won’t have to worry about it as long as the fingerboard lasts.

 

[Derek Kay]

If there is sufficent height the A string could be dropped to even out the angles of the radius. A Rhomburg bevel might prevent that.

My bass has a Rhomburg bevel at the nut, but that fades out towards the other (round) end of the fingerboard.

However your bridge is adjustable so you should be able to raise it a little and correct the curvature of the bridge. One quick fix would be to slightly raise the G side only and dropping the G & A strings slightly. Check the E as well. Not the perfect solution but if it works that's what matters. It can take years to fettle a bass to sound and play well. It's a fiddle...

 

[Swampyankee2]

No offense, but you posted about this same issue almost a year ago. Have you had any adjustments made since that time? TB members may have other recommendations if we know your location.

I probably did post about this previously, but I couldn't find the thread a year later and can't recall the responses. To my shame, I haven't progressed much in my playing since then.
I'm in Rhode Island if that helps.

 

[Swampyankee2]

Your bridge is crowned to account for the Rhomburg bevel in the fingerboard. If the bridge crown had a nice round orchestra curve the A string would be too low and choke out.

The cure is to have the bevel planed out of the fingerboard and the bridge crown adjusted. Not cheap, but when done you won’t have to worry about it as long as the fingerboard lasts.

The shape of the bridge does follow the shape of the fingerboard. I could look into dropping the A string a bit.

 

[Swampyankee2]

Just for reference, here's the old bridge, pic taken from the tailpiece side as the previous pic. There is definitely more arc to it.

 

[Ryan in PDX]

I had a similar situation (fingerboard bevel included), and asked my luthier to file the G bridge slot lower to make arco easier, like you're asking for. He told me bluntly that he didn't recommend it. I told him to do it anyway, and he did...

I wish I'd listened to my luthier. I still had the same trouble with the bow after the adjustment, and that trouble magically vanished after a few dozen practice hours. Now the G string is always too low when the DAE are perfect, which in turn exaggerates both the tone difference between the D and G, and an imperfection in my fingerboard carve under the G string. I'll probably end up shimming the slot back to a normal height.

Tust your luthier and/or teacher.

 

[JBarz]

Is the bridge on upside down? Usually the label/stamp faces up toward the scroll.

I always face the stamp down if I wanna show it off because I carve only on the top side of my bridges.

One thing I’ll do sometimes in this situation is switch to a D string that’s a little thicker. I bet if you switched to plain gut D/G over spiros that you’d get more clearance over the D string when playing arco. Your bass (and rhomburg bevel, subsequently) was setup for gut - it might fix alll the issues without luthier intervention.

 

[Swampyankee2]

I still have the gut strings that were on the bass. They're very old though

 

[JBarz]

I still have the gut strings that were on the bass. They're very old though

Sometimes old gut strings end up being the best option!!! What did you replace them with? Spirocore E and A over gut D and G is my favorite vintage Kay setup for sure.

Get you some finger nail clippers and the finest grain sandpaper (for auto detailing) that you can get to maintain those strings. They might need a good coat of oil (only where you DONT bow -oil can foul bow hair real fast.). Lots of options - I used to use mineral oil, but use olive oil now a days… Let us know if this improves the situation.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Did you tell your luthier you intended to put the bow to this bass? Many owners of Kay basses don’t even own a bow and will be more sensitive to the way their bass feels when playing pizz. Standard practice is to set the string heights so that the D is 1-1.5mm higher than the G, A 1-1.5mm higher than the D and so on. Because Kay fingerboards are so flat, that approach will naturally give your result. Using a standard bridge arch for arco will result in the D string feeling high when played pizz. As much as I like old Kays, this is one of the quirks. I was taught to ‘Always use the bridge template for arco regardless of the fingerboard arch!!!!!’ but this is something that should be discussed with player.

 

[Jason Sypher]

Always the guy to state the obvious. Tighten your bow hair and do some daily exercises where you start bowing open g then add the d, bowing both, then slowly work across removing the g and bow just the d then slowly add the a and bow the d and a together etc etc. In short, retrain your sense of the “planes” and angles. You will have more success if you bow closer to the bridge than usual. Of course you can always slip a little piece of a business card under that d string to bring it up a little.

A bridge re-cut often includes a reshaping of the fingerboard which can end up being costly…

 

[Paps]

Yes, the D string looks suspect. I can see why Louis questioned the attitude of the bridge.

 

[Swampyankee2]

Did you tell your luthier you intended to put the bow to this bass? Many owners of Kay basses don’t even own a bow.

I was completely new to the double bass when I had mine (my dads) repaired. I had no idea about arco until I brought the Kay German bow that came with the bass to Upton Bass to rehair it. That's the first time I heard someone play with a bow and I fell in love with it.

 

[JBarz]

If you’re close to Upton, you should 100% just have them set it up to you for arco. Heirloom instrument + passion and desire to play make it a no brainer. The investment will pay off in joy for a long long time. Good luck!