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Double Bass String input for Brian Bromberg

#21
Thanks for the kind words guys. You know it's funny but I can't even remember when the last time I changed strings was? I keep strings on my bass for years and yeas at a time. I usually end up changing them when the winding starts to fall apart and start cutting my fingers! It will really be a trip to see how my bass responds to different strings.

Many Years ago great classical bassist Curtis Burris borrowed my Italian bass to use for his doctoral recital while his Amati was being restored. He set the bass up for classical bowing and we were both completely blown away by the sound of the bass. In fact when he got his Amati back after I think he mortgaged at least two houses to buy (wow) we went into the small concert hall at the University of Arizona School of Music and we played both basses back to back. He would play the Amati and mine and I would listen, then I would play his Amati and mine and he would listen. What happened next was not what either one of us expected. My Mattio Guersam Italian bass set up to bow quite clearly to both Curtis and myself sounded way better then the Amati!! Not only was I in shock the look on his face said everything. I felt so bad and yet was totally freaking out at how good my bass sounded with a bow in a concert hall! Man talk about a beautiful bow arm, Curtis is as good as anyone. That was the last time a different set of strings were on my bass and we are talking over 30 years ago.

I may end up right back where I started because my bass sings with the Weichs but I think it will be a very fun journey trying out new strings and new sounds!
 
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#22
Keeping Spiros for the A and E is always a good option.

I once tried A Spiro Mittel 4/4 (S42) set with a high C Obligato. This will fit tensionwise, but it was not my sound (at this time) and it would have been better to change the G and probybly the D too to Obligatos to avoid an audible change in sound from string to string.

Then I changed to Spiro Weich 4/4 (S42W) and since I didn't found a steel core high C that I liked (too thin) I ordered a set of Innovation 140B (with an experimental high C). Since the Innovation 140B (Braided) E and A had a short sustain initially (they became very good after some bending treatment) I used the Spiro Weich 4/4 E and A. This was a good combination for pizz, for arco I was a bit annoyed by the different bowing response. Then I run the 140B E and A over the tip of my thumb softly bending it about 40 degrees over the whole length of the string and also turning the string to reduce the stiffness of the string equally. Took about an hour for each string. Then I cleaned the edges of the windings, that developed due to the string bending, with fine steel wool. I put the Spiros down and went with a complete set of 140B with a nice long sustain. For jazz I like to pizz at the end of the fingerboard, otherwise the pizz is rather soft, but I like it that way. The bowing is really nice.

---

If you can look for an old string sleeve you will find either 3886.xW or S42W (or S3xW or S4xW) on it. It is not possible to see the length type from the string itself, except if you measure the whole length of the string (and write down which string you measured), since the 3/4 strings are about two to three inches shorter than the corresponding 4/4 strings.
As I know Spiros (and probably also Superflexibles) are the only strings that differ in mass per length (and therefor tension on the same string scale) for 3/4 and 4/4 sets. So for Spiros it is important to know which tension class and which length you use to give the best advice.

If you use 3/4 Weich Spiros (3885.xW) the Obligato might be better with the Weich set, since the 3/4 and 4/4 strings differ tensionwise on the same string scale (they are made to have the same tension on different string scales).
Innovation 140H (Honeys) might fit in the same tension class, but with a different sound. A lot of a bit lower midrange, almost no highs (air). Sounds more old school, not really gut-like, but with the old school kind of pizz attack.

One more option is Velvet. If you want to be able to bow on these strings too, there is only the Compas 180 set (and the Classico). The regular set has about the same tension than the 3/4 Spiro Weich, the SUIT set is closer to the 4/4 Spiro Weich set. They sound similar to the Obligatos, maybe a bit brighter. A bit tricky to mount the first few times. The Classico set is a bit darker in sound, nice on G and D, maybe a bit dark on E and A (might sound better with a Compas 180 E and A).
The Compas 180 (and to some degree also the Classico) is a bit tricky to bow with a nice sound. The Compas 180 is more like a soloist's string, it really stands out arco.

These are all synthetic core strings with outer metal windings (for bowing), most with a braided core, only Dominant and 140H with a solid core.

Here a little table of brightness as far as I know.

Medium Bright:
Compas 180 (regular and SUIT)

Medium:
Classico
Obligato
(maybe Dominant)

Medium Dark:
Innovation 140B (Braided)

Dark:
Innovation 140H (Honeys)
Evah Pirazzi Weich

Very Dark:
Evah Pirazzi (regular)

Don't try Kolstein Heritage, the pizz sustain is really short ("plop"), so not what you asked for.

As Greg said, the strings change character during the first two weeks, but also after some months or a lot of playing. When the initial stiffness is reduced due to string stretching (and separating the windings a very little bit from their neighbors for that reason) the string becomes darker. (Like Spiros after some time.)

BTW, I try to make a string overview for over a year and got more than one hundred different double bass string sets in there (and this list is not yet complete, there are more sets available).

Be prepared that any string that's not a Spiro (or a Superflexible) will live for about 6 months to two years until you might find they need to be replaced.
 
#23
Hi Brian,

First off, I'm a big fan of your work! I love you musical ideas and of course your tone. As you stated, you might actually end up keeping the Spiros in the long run, but if you're looking for a more "old school" sound, I would like to offer my two cents.

Something to consider is if you will be using a mic or pickup, and then of course what type of micing situation (studio vs live) and what type of pickup etc... I've played bass for Ray Price for seven years. He wants a very "old school" country bass sound. I used Velvet Garbos for a while with him (and various combinations of the Garbos and Gut mix). I found that they sounded amazing with a Sennheiser 421 on stage, but when I used them with various pickups into the amp, I couldn't get the true acoustic "magic" they provided with the mic and they ended up sounding "mushy". Not at all like how they sounded with the mic. With a Realist and an amp it's a different story. After trying every string known to man in various gigging situations from small clubs to large halls I keep going back to Pirastro Obligatos. You have to play on them for about 3 weeks or so to break em in, but what I love about them (on my bass at least) is that they're so easy to use with an amp. The volume and tension are very even string to string and they don't provide those weird high freq overtones like some of the other sythetic gut string that can cause strange feedback. They have a nice "boom" that kind of resembles gut, but you still have a good pitch center and very audible attack. All that being said, I don't know if they'd sound right on your bass, but they really sound good on mine.


Hope this helps,

Tyler

www.TylerJacksonMusic.com
 
#24
Hello Brian-everyone: Once again, your Bass is obviously a great instrument.
My Bass sounds great with EPs compared to the other strings I've tried. EPs gave the bowing & pizz a darker & richer quality.
Saw a bass shop 🔟Pirastro string ad showing that
John Clayton is using Obligatos ,that describes them as brighter than EPs
John Pattatucci uses a variety of Pirastro strings.
I tried so many strings on my bass & others, but I hear about new strings from Pirastro & D'Addario
Never know if there is something better....
Then there's Gut .......
 
#25
Brian Bromberg said:
Thanks for the kind words guys. You know it's funny but I can't even remember when the last time I changed strings was? I keep strings on my bass for years and yeas at a time. I usually end up changing them when the winding starts to fall apart and start cutting my fingers! It will really be a trip to see how my bass responds to different strings.
I may end up right back where I started because my bass sings with the Weichs but I think it will be a very fun journey trying out new strings and new sounds!
Click to expand...

And of course, since you're the Brian Bromberg you will probably be able to try a wide variety at little or no cost to you. Perks of being a Major Bass Dude! :)
 
#29
Wow your feedback is amazing, thank you! Actually this forum in Talkbass is the first place I went as I will get the straight skinny in here. Thank you for taking the time to write the detail info about the strings.

I will check with several companies at NAMM in a few weeks and see what I can try/learn about strings. I know my good friends at La Bella have been doing some experimenting with some new upright string formulas so I know I will be checking those out for sure, but with all of your great feedback there are several different sets I need to try.

It's amazing how out of the loop I have been just doing my own thing as most of the strings you guys are talking about I have never heard of. Thanks for the enlightenment!.........B2
 
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#30
My vote is for Pirastro Jazzers. Thump kinda-like Animas but all the same behaviors as a spiro with just a little less sustain. Not great for arco is the drawback. I would still be using them if it weren't the tensions in my bass going up with a new soundpost. Am using Spiro Solos right now and I'd imagine that Spiro weich would only be marginally different on my bass (fully carved New Standard). I would try Velvet Animas if you have the inclination. Out of all the synthetic strings I've tried, they're probably most gut-like. For me, the Jazzers are a happy medium between Animas and Spiros.

IMO, Evah Pirazzi isn't the string you want. Very dark. Obligatos are very soft and can take time to speak. Helicore Hybrids have a very fast decay.

Just to reiterate: Herve Jeanne's string sample audio matrix is pretty accurate.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Happy hunting!
 
#31
Brian Bromberg said:
Wow your feedback is amazing, thank you! Actually this forum in Talkbass is the first place I went as I will get the straight skinny in here. Thank you for taking the time to write the detail info about the strings.

I will check with several companies at NAMM in a few weeks and see what I can try/learn about strings. I know my good friends at La Bella have been doing some experimenting with some new upright string formulas so I know I will be checking those out for sure, but with all of your great feedback there are several different sets I need to try.

It's amazing how out of the loop I have been just doing my own thing as most of the strings you guys are talking about I have never heard of. Thanks for the enlightenment!.........B2
Click to expand...
Again, most of us here think you're the smartest guy in the room just for not spending thousands on failed string experiments ;)
 
#32
Brian Bromberg said:
Hey Talk Bassers, this is Brian Bromberg. I am looking for input on strings as I have only used Thomastik Spirocore "Weichs" on my bass since I was 16. I love the growl and sustain my bass gets from those strings as my bass has really thrived on them. . . .

Similarly, I have only used Helicore Hybid lights on my only playable bass for over a decade. I, too. wanted a change but couldn't make up my mind. Now I have.
Thanks, Brian :)
Click to expand...
 
#33
Hi Brian, about ten years ago I changed from couple decades of spiros to a bunch of other strings looking for the same thing. More trad thump, volume, yet not wanting to give up all of the sustain.

I started on Obligatos, flexocors, golden sprial, etc., tried a lot over bunch of years and ended up liking Evah Perazzi's and Velvet strings a lot. I feel the Evah Perazzi are a better string than Obligatos and at least on my basses and they bow real well.

If you want to go further from Spiros the Velvet Animas are also a really good string. Lots of volume and can sound trad/modern. Hope this helps.
 
#34
Or... you could keep the weichs on the bass and raise the string height by a mm or two for these recordings. Than should give the older, thumpier sound. In my experience that particular sound is more about how the bass is set up and how you play than the strings themselves.
-Jeff
 
#39
JeffKissell said:
Or... you could keep the weichs on the bass and raise the string height by a mm or two for these recordings. Than should give the older, thumpier sound. In my experience that particular sound is more about how the bass is set up and how you play than the strings themselves.
-Jeff
Click to expand...

This has been my experience as well. I tend to adjust the height at least a day before a recording session to facilitate the sound required/requested. Spiros have done all but the straight gut sound for me.

Then again, experimenting with a bunch of different strings sounds like a lot of fun (if it can be done on the cheap)
Best of luck on your hunt and thanks for the music!
 
#40
A raised string height might not be as pleasant to play than before.
One reason is, that the string needs to stretch more when pressing down in the same place. Strings with a more elastic core (like gut, synthetic, textile) are nicer to play with a raised string height.
So raising the strings will give the thump, but using more elastic string cores give back the nice left hand feel.

That said, even Spiro Weich or downtuned Solo might probably do the job a bit better than Spiro Mittel or other less elastic and higher tension strings.
 

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