Double Bass String not in tune (with itself)

[buckthorn]

While trying to tune my strings last night, I tried tuning via the harmonics and a digital tuner (istrobosoft). My G string seemed to be out of tune with itself. The second harmonic (high "G") was 20 cents high compared to the open string. All of the other strings' second harmonics were right on the money.

Is this a sign that the string is headed south? This is an Evah that was on this (not new, but barely used) bass when I bought it last summer. I don't know how exactly old these Evahs (ADG) are, but they are not new. One of the other strings (a spiro mittel E) went belly-up not too long ago and was replaced.

At this point, I'm thinking of replacing this set and keeping it as a backup.

 

[Who da Ville]

I'm no pro, but a mis-adjusted bridge will cause that. I have a cheap acoustic BG, and the lower neck is about a quarter step off from the upper neck. It'd cost more to fix than the instrument is worth.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Yeah, something's up with the core and wrapping. When my Oliv G starting unwrapping recently that's what happened and any of my past string issues with shaged up overtone series on a string preceded string failure...

 

[buckthorn]

Thanks, that's what I suspected. I guess it's time for some new strings. It's probably the only way I'd get motivated enough to take action and remove the Evahs.

Yeah, something's up with the core and wrapping. When my Oliv G starting unwrapping recently that's what happened and any of my past string issues with shaged up overtone series on a string preceded string failure...

 

[DoubleMIDI]

I‘m not completely sure that is the reason, but Nylon/Perlon and PEEK core synthetic strings stretch a lot under tension. The (often metal) windings will separate with the stretch, leaving some little space between the winding rotations. The windings can move over the core and build areas of higher and lower weight per length unit.

Another reason might be different bending stiffness along the string, a result of bowing or plucking over a long time that makes the string more flexible in that area, but a lot less at the higher (fingered) parts of the string.

And finally rosin buildup can also be a reason for the destining of partials.

But harmonics on a string are never exact, since due to string stiffness the acoustically effective string length differs for every partial of the string a bit. But not THAT much unless you use a bridge cable.

 

[Martin Spure]

Sorry for reviving an old thread, but I'm experiencing exactly the same issue on my Evah Weich G-string.
However, I put it on brand new on Dec. 1st '23, so it's a relatively recent change. I'd assume a Pirastro string would last longer than 3 months. My Evah Mediums on the MK Studio EUB has been one for 3+ years without any signs of a similar degradation.

With such short longevity of the G-string, would any of you recommend me to contact Pirastro directly for a replacement or should I make a claim with the vendor I purchased the set from ?

 

[Paps]

If it was A string, I'd be thinking wolf tone, but hardly on the G string?

 

[Francois Blais]

3 months would yield me to the manufacturer directly.

 

[Anne Millington]

I always heard that as the string not being "true", and indicating time to get out the checkbook.

 

[fdeck]

I noticed a weird thing recently, that pizz and arco on my open G string are about 15 cents apart, regardless of volume. I'm guessing this is the onset of "falsing" and it means that the string is worn out.

 

[Martin Spure]

Thank you for your replies. I’ll get in contact with pirastro and see if I can get a replacement

 

[Papageno]

A string that is homogeneous (i.e., with a density, in kg/m, and an elasticity modulus, that are eveywhere the same everywhere on the string) has harmonic frequencies that are integer multiples of the fundamental frequency. This is a law of physics.

If for some reason, the density and elasticity modulus are not homogeneous, and change from place to place, then the harmonic frequencies are usually not integer multiples of the fundamental frequency. In practice, this may happen it the string has been bent sharply: this may induce a damage in the core of the string, resulting in a change of the elasticity modulus in the vicinity the area that has been bent sharply. As this affects the core, the string may very well appear visually completely normal.

 

[Co.]

Do you check the pitch bowing or pizz? I guess, you do it with the bow. If you pizz and the harmonic is in tune, then this might be a problem with too much pressure, either left hand or right hand. Might be worth a try.

 

[CaseyVancouver]

It is fun to buy new strings but…

A string not being in tune with itself is really not relevant musically when actually playing with anybody, at least in my world. Yeah, I hear the tiny difference, alone, in the peace and quiet of my music room.

I get different tuning when pizz versus arco, and on open strings versus harmonics. Both pizz or arco specific strings. Certainly not as significant as most pianos, which are often a tuning mess.

But playing in the real world, the tympanist, tuba player, bass trombone can blow me away, easy. Some times I can’t hear the note I’m playing, much less the intonation. Same on a jazz gig with a hard hitting drummer.

It just does not matter that my open strings are a tiny bit out of tune with any harmonics. Not worth buying new strings.

I asked my first teacher, a top orchestral pro, when I should replace upright strings. He gave me a funny look, thought about it, and said ‘when they break’. This is about 50 years ago.

Most of us, I include myself, need to worry much more about intonation, reading, watching the conductor, bowing, getting into a pocket with the drummer, thinking of a jazz solo structure etc, than something apparent only in the music room.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[Martin Spure]

An open string out of tune with itself (you can actually hear it on recordings) is a faulty string in my book, especially at 100$ per string. The open string will always be out of tune with itself, no matter what you do - and noticeably so.

I cannot live with that, as there’s no way to mitigate it, other than replacing the string. Pirastro agrees and will send me a replacement string. You can hear it clearly in this clip: