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Strings, their guage and effecting relief. Trussrod maxed, still have relief.

howdoyoudo

howdoyoudo

Jan 11, 2014
28
8
California.
#1
So I've got a squire japan jazz bass, 86. With out strings the neck is straight. The truss rod is maxed out as far as possible. With strings, nickle round wounds, there is too much relief and I need to get the string height quite high to make it playable on the upper frets which would be around the 12th and higher.

I'm planning on putting on a set of standard gauge Roto 66 stainless. Played a friends with it and sounded nice and he told me it has higher tension which may help my situation out.

Would putting on heavier strings straighten the neck out? Putting more tension on the neck forcing it to be straight?

Not sure what the science is about it. Naturally to me it feels like heavier would help.

If just changing a pair of strings won't work I'll try to straighten the neck, clamp it and see if there is more room for the truss rod to move. Or add washers. But I'd like to avoid doing those two if I have to as I'm playing this bass as my only bass in a band, and that will take time away from rehearsal and gigs.

Thanks, any thoughts appreciated.
 
#3
Yes, it sounds in fact like your problem is actually lack of relief; the neck shouldn't be straight under tension, is should have at least a slight inward bow (relief). You should start from scratch, back off that truss rod, and do a complete set-up if you can. The internets will guide you...
 
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#4
Are you sure the truss is maxed? Sometimes it only seems like it is due to the pressure it's under. Try carefully using mechanical pressure/force - and use the truss to hold the neck in place rather than using the truss to move the neck.
 
#5
Possibly not, but it feels like it's maxed out. I physically can't turn it anymore.

Todd and Taff, you two are saying the lighter gauge set of strings will give me more tension and straighten the neck while a heavier set would give me more relief and less tension?

My neck starts off straight, then when I put strings on and tune to pitch, I get more relief. Half step down it get's straighter and so on.

Seems to me more tension would mean straighter neck.
 
#9
Okay. Hotbass57 I know that. This is my predicament, respelled out.

When I loosen the truss rod nut, it gains relief. Good, Checks out.

When I take it all the way off, it's at max relief. Good, Checks out.

When I put it on and tighten it, it straightens the neck. Good, Checks out.

Then when I put strings on and it is fully tightened, the neck still has too much relief. Not good, problem.

When I loosen the truss rod and put strings on there is even more relief. Not good, problem.

So my problem is: there is not enough tension in the truss rod when the truss rod is fully tightened.

The tension of the strings are greater than the tension in the neck, but I can no longer tighten the tension in the neck. I need more tension in the neck, but it can not tighten any further.

Thoughts/solution?
 
#10
heavier strings will put MORE tension on the neck and bend it even further (more space under the strings in the middle of your fretboard when fretting at the first fret and at the 20th fret) - lighter strings will have less tension and pull less so your trussrod doesn't have to work as hard to hold the neck against the pull of the strings.

If your trussrod were working correctly and you had it tightened as tight as it would go with no strings on, you would have a lot of back bow - not a straight neck. If barely straight, without strings, is the most you can pull the neck back with your trussrod, then your neck/trussrod is not working properly.
 
Last edited:
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#12
Ah I see. Okay. So my truss rod isn't working correctly. It feels tighter than hell, would it be safe to vice grip it and keep turning with mass force?

Now I understand why the heavier strings wouldn't work and would make it worse. Cool. Thank you so much AndyPanda.

Washers are something I'll try before any other drastic measures. Cheers David Jayne.

Clamping and heating the neck would be the next step correct?
 
#13
Washers may or may not work ...I've seen basses (CBS Fenders mostly) where if you continued tightening the truss rod it simply started to compress the wood as the rod pulled straight down into the neck (raising the fingerboard). That was because the trussrod/neck wasn't built right.
 
#15
howdoyoudo said:
It feels tighter than hell, would it be safe to vice grip it and keep turning with mass force?
Click to expand...
You would likely snap the trussrod and then you'd have a bigger chore to fix.

It is possible washers would work "if that is the problem" ... But I would not torque it so hard that it breaks -- it shouldn't need much force at all with a properly working trussrod, I can pull a trussrod wrench with my pinky finger enough to give the neck too much backbow (on a properly working neck).

I'd say if the washers don't fix it you should see a GOOD luthier ...
 
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#16
Thank you. Will go with the washers for now. Would I need a different size for a Japan bass?

I'm hoping it's just stuck, and have it be a low cost fix / something I can do. I really hate bringing an instrument to a shop. Never feels right.

Notice you're in California AndyPanda, do you know of any good luthiers in California? I'm around Venice Beach/Santa Monica area.
 
#18
Carefully use some mechanical pressure/force with one hand on the neck (not headstock)/legs holding the body - and use the truss to hold the neck in place once moved mechanically rather than using the truss to move the neck.
 
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#19
Hey everyone, thank you for your guy's input and the length you all have gone into detail helping me understand my problem and how to resolve it. Finally after a few months of frustration. I've resolved it.

I took the neck off and took off the truss rod nut. Let it set for a few days.

Then applied pressure to the back of the neck with my hand around the 7th fret and hear the truss rod moving felt like it spun.

So I lubed up the truss rod threads, the interior of the nut and the nut's surrounding. It's a vintage fender style truss rod nut.

Turned it till I got some pressure, then put more pressure on the neck same as before. Continued this letting it rest for 20 minutes. After this process a few times it felt like it was maxed out.

Did this until the neck had a slight back bow and was very tight to turn. (I used to not get it passed barely straight before hand.)

Put a cardboard strip about 1/4th in width but the full length of the neck pocket left to right nearest towards the body. About the thickness of a business card. I've tried this before, but it didn't work. So In addition to this I took the same type of material from the top fold of a book of matches. Then put that on top of that. It reached out to where the bottom screws would be to put on the neck.

Put the neck on, let it rest, then put those old nickle wound strings on.

Tuned to pitch, adjusted saddle height, adjusted intonation.

Now it plays perfect and feels really smooth.

Not sure what it was, but must have been a combination of things.

Problem resolved, hope this helps someone as well.

I couldn't find any washers at my local stores, called everywhere, so I decided one last try before ordering online. Glad I did.

Thank you again for all the advice and thoughts. Made me feel a ton better about approaching and fixing this bass to be playable. Now it's one of the best feeling basses to play I've ever played.

Cheers.
 
#20
howdoyoudo said:
Hey everyone, thank you for your guy's input and the length you all have gone into detail helping me understand my problem and how to resolve it. Finally after a few months of frustration. I've resolved it.

I took the neck off and took off the truss rod nut. Let it set for a few days.

Then applied pressure to the back of the neck with my hand around the 7th fret and hear the truss rod moving felt like it spun.

So I lubed up the truss rod threads, the interior of the nut and the nut's surrounding. It's a vintage fender style truss rod nut.

Turned it till I got some pressure, then put more pressure on the neck same as before. Continued this letting it rest for 20 minutes. After this process a few times it felt like it was maxed out.

Did this until the neck had a slight back bow and was very tight to turn. (I used to not get it passed barely straight before hand.)

Put a cardboard strip about 1/4th in width but the full length of the neck pocket left to right nearest towards the body. About the thickness of a business card. I've tried this before, but it didn't work. So In addition to this I took the same type of material from the top fold of a book of matches. Then put that on top of that. It reached out to where the bottom screws would be to put on the neck.

Put the neck on, let it rest, then put those old nickle wound strings on.

Tuned to pitch, adjusted saddle height, adjusted intonation.

Now it plays perfect and feels really smooth.

Not sure what it was, but must have been a combination of things.

Problem resolved, hope this helps someone as well.

I couldn't find any washers at my local stores, called everywhere, so I decided one last try before ordering online. Glad I did.

Thank you again for all the advice and thoughts. Made me feel a ton better about approaching and fixing this bass to be playable. Now it's one of the best feeling basses to play I've ever played.

Cheers.
Click to expand...
that's great news, glad it all worked out! =]
 

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