Double Bass striving for a better sound...

[munk18]

hey there fellow bassists,

ive been playing on an underwood pickup for about 5 years. i use a Fender bassman 150 watt combo amp. i like this amp since i can play electric and upright through it, but with the upright i run into so many problems. with the up right all im getting is low end and when i play the D and G strings theres nothing. i mean you can hear it, but theres no body to the sound. i catch myself plucking really hard to just hear myself sometimes. throughout a rehearsal or gig i turn up where i feedback. basically my question is - is there any other way to zone in on my sound? pre-amp? DI box that would help? i have been looking at the radial bass bone preamp. would this help? think its the pick up? the amp?

any help will be appreciated!

 

[drurb]

From what you described, I'd suspect the pickup.

 

[jrlynch]

buy one of fdeck's little black boxes. the high impedance input will keep the fender from loading down things, giving you everything the pickup is picking up; the high-pass filter will clean up the boominess and the phase reversal switch can help you control feedback.

then, you can really assess your sound and move on to fully obsessing about strings and setup and pickups and amps and preamps and cabinets and all the other silliness that fuels this site

jeff.

 

[Marc Piane]

From what you described, I'd suspect the pickup.

I don't know. That's a slab amp. If it is severely favoring the lower frequencies you'd get an uneven response too.

 

[robgrow]

+1 for fdeck's HPF-Pre. It's the Swiss Army Knife for amplifying the double bass and can help solve many problems.

re: "Slab amps:" My Walter Woods and GK amps sound great for both double bass and bass guitar. I also know some very good jazz DB players who successfully use combo amps normally associated with bass guitar. I don't think there is any clear distinction between bass guitar and double bass amps. There are only amps that have the sound you want and those that don't.

 

[Marc Piane]

+1 for fdeck's HPF-Pre. It's the Swiss Army Knife for amplifying the double bass and can help solve many problems.

re: "Slab amps:" My Walter Woods and GK amps sound great for both double bass and bass guitar. I also know some very good jazz DB players who successfully use combo amps normally associated with bass guitar. I don't think there is any clear distinction between bass guitar and double bass amps. There are only amps that have the sound you want and those that don't.

Ok. Semantics though. I use a GK almost exclusively and favor it over an AI amp which is supposed to be an amp intended for DB. I ask for a GK 400 or 800RB in my rider when I'm touring.

That said I have some Fender amp in my teaching studio that sounds nice with EB and sounds like ass with DB. It has the exact problem that the OP describes. The E and A are louder than the D and G. Certain amps tend towards the boom. Amp can often sound more powerful then they really are by making them favor the bass frequencies and thus making them seem more powerful than they really are. The illusion bass 'power' is also very alluring in the showroom.

There are certain amps that are better for DB.

 

[DaveKirkpatrick]

+1 on fdeck's pre- haven't heard it, but people like it and it's affordable. I have the Bassman 100 I use for upright gigs occasionally and haven't really had the frequency response problems you describe. As others have pointed out be careful of how you eq the amp, especially be conscious of how the "contour" knob affects the eq curve. Sometimes more contour sounds good on the slab but very bad for the upright bass. I would also experiment with the fit of your pickup.

 

[Gearhead43]

I would say that not using a preamp is the biggest problem here. Lots of players use "bass guitar amps" and get a very usable sound, but not by plugging straight into the low-impedance inputs.

A preamp is a must, IMO.

 

[drurb]

I don't know. That's a slab amp. If it is severely favoring the lower frequencies you'd get an uneven response too.

What he described didn't seem to be a loading problem as that would make the pickup sound thin and "honky." Also, it seemed that his description of a dramatic loss of output on the D and G, was likely not to be the fault of the amp. It's really hard to tell from his description.

 

[Gearhead43]

He didn't give enough info you're right. What EQ settings are being used? Are both transducers of the Underwood being used?

I am very surprised he isn't getting a honky sound if a preamp is not being used.

 

[AMJBASS]

I would try one thing first... sometimes you get cancellation with the 2 pickup elements. Try taking out the treble side pickup(just let it hang there for a second), and play just with the bass element being used. The Bassman amps sound OK with upright IMO. They aren't the most transparent. Underwoods are inherently bassy sounding I have found as well. It should be more balanced than what you describe however.

 

[munk18]

sorry if my description is bad, but thanks for baring with me.
i play mostly classical so im just on the surface with bass gear, the wording and such...what info would you guys prefer so i can help you help me?

i got alot of opinons and options here. i dont think its the pick up. underwoods dont look it, but its built tough. as for the response im getting its seems i have just waaay too much low frequency - underwoods are inherently bassy sounding, the fender is favoring low frequencies. so i probably need something in the middle to balance that out. i tried adrian's technique of taking out the treble side pickup and it balanced it out alot more. theres more bass to the higher notes however still its hard to hear the pitches. when i put it back in it immediately looses the lows and sounds twangy... lots of mids. im going to check out that HPF-pre and a few other amps. any other feedback would be great! thanks alot guys!

 

[RHayton]

I second the positive review of FDeck's HPF--I got one about 3 or 4 months ago; I have the K & K Pure Pre-Amp and the K&K dual channel--neither one of them worked well at all for me. For past two years I've been using a Fishman Platinum Pro and thought it was a pretty good piece of equipment, but when I plugged into the FDeck HPF, there was a noticeably clearer and punchier sound, requiring less less gain to get the volume I need in the big band swing orchestra I play in. Haven't used anything but the HPF since. Am thinking about getting a second one from him just in case I want another one in the future and he goes out of business.

 

[Bass]

+10 for the HPF-Pre, I'm not a fan of the K&K pre-amp either.

Munk18 how did you have the Underwood installed?

The bridge wing needs to be flat and parallel to the leg surface. The pickup needs to be installed square, with the full surface of the pickup in contact with the wing.

 

[DaveKirkpatrick]

Hi, Hope you're able to find something that works for not a whole lotta money. What is the speaker in your bassman combo? Is it the new one that has the 12" and rocks back like a monitor wedge or an older bassman with the 15" speaker?

 

[lofreek]

Wing pickups are all incredibly sensitive to how they are installed, the Underwood doubly so as it has two wing sensors. One small imperfection in the slot on either side can cause the issue you describe.

 

[munk18]

+10 for the HPF-Pre, I'm not a fan of the K&K pre-amp either.

Munk18 how did you have the Underwood installed?

The bridge wing needs to be flat and parallel to the leg surface. The pickup needs to be installed square, with the full surface of the pickup in contact with the wing.

I have the underwood mounted behind the tailpiece where you put your strings in. heres a pic i found online. its like this, but the output is facing the opposite direction and the actual unit is behind the tailpiece.