Struggling with tone

[pmcdn]

I'd appreciate some assistance with my tone: I'm aiming for rich, deep lows with clear mids/highs, avoiding muddiness in the lows and tinny highs. My setup includes a Fender Jazz MIM with Tom Brantley pickups and rotosound RS66 strings, running through a signal chain of Tech21 Sansamp YYZ, Scarlett 2nd Gen into Garageband, and finally to my Acoustic B100 1x15.

My goal is to capture a Geddy Lee-esque tone in terms of depth and brightness, but NOT trying to mimic him exactly. I'm NOT trying to sound exactly like Geddy Lee.

My challenge lies in achieving deep lows without sacrificing the clarity of the highs. When I focus on getting the highs right, the lows feel thin, and when I emphasize growly lows, the highs become tinny. Struggling to get the deep lows but with growl and clarity. Not easy.

In Garageband, I typically use the modern stack amp designer and incorporate the OTT Xfer compressor to some extent.

Do you have any quick tips for addressing this issue, or would you like more information to provide better guidance? Thanks in advance!

 

[thewildest]

I can’t discern if this could be an equalization issue or something with your playing from your description. I’d try a few things: eq the bass with high lows and treble, mis 80% bridge+20% Neck and play up the neck, around the 15th fret. Does this get you closer to your sound?

 

[WayneP]

My challenge lies in achieving deep lows without sacrificing the clarity of the highs.

IMO that’s a tall order for a single 15” cabinet.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Pedulla Club #45 Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Pedulla Club #45

 

[Bass4ThePublic]

Sounds like you need more headroom, time to go amp shopping! I like ashdown.

 

[pmcdn]

so you think it's the cabinet, or lack there of? I was wondering about that myself.

If I even only upgraded to say like a 2 x 10 cab or so, what I start to notice the difference?

IMO that’s a tall order for a single 15” cabinet.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Pedulla Club #45 Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Pedulla Club #45

 

[WayneP]

so you think it's the cabinet, or lack there of? I was wondering about that myself.

If you look at the offerings of most respected cabinet makers, they are most commonly using 2-way designs, with a separate high frequency driver to accompany the main 10”-15” speaker.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Pedulla Club #45 Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Pedulla Club #45

 

[Marko 1]

so you think it's the cabinet, or lack there of? I was wondering about that myself.

If I even only upgraded to say like a 2 x 10 cab or so, what I start to notice the difference?

What restrictions (if any) do you have that would prohibit going larger...

and I'm not talking two 10"s.

Say at minimum two 12”s, or better yet two 15”s or four 10"s.
.

 

[pmcdn]

What restrictions (if any) do you have that would prohibit going larger...

and I'm not talking two 10"s.

Say at minimum two 12”s, or better yet two 15”s or four 10"s.
.

My only restrictions (besides spending a lot of money) would be space in house room. I am not in a band... I play on my own to recordings, etc. I was thinking 2xwhatever OR 4x10 or so. Then i have to think about an amp head of some sort, which opens up another can of worms

 

[pmcdn]

On a somewhat related, but different question... have any of you ever experimented with splitting your output signal and having one go to the bass amp for clean low sounds and the other to a smaller guitar amp for highs with higher gain, gritty tone to mix together in the room?

 

[J Wilson]

If we discard buying anything else, my advice would be to set the amp to flat, and plug directly in with no pedals, and see how close you can get to where you want to be. Then add pedals as necessary.

A lot of times in pedal setups, it's easy to add or lose tone without realizing where it's happening, a lot of variables that can interact in ways that aren't obvious.

 

[And I]

This is in "live sound" so I'll ask... why are you using an audio interface or garageband at all?

It's possible whatever you are doing in garageband has a speaker simulator and usually using a speaker simulator and a speaker at the same time is not going to sound like you want it to.

Try simplifying things. Remove garageband from your chain. The samsamp and your acoustic amp should give you plenty or flexibility.

it's possible you will need to upgrade your amp. The B100 is essentially a practice amp...

 

[pmcdn]

This is in "live sound" so I'll ask... why are you using an audio interface or garageband at all?

It's possible whatever you are doing in garageband has a speaker simulator and usually using a speaker simulator and a speaker at the same time is not going to sound like you want it to.

Try simplifying things. Remove garageband from your chain. The samsamp and your acoustic amp should give you plenty or flexibility.

it's possible you will need to upgrade your amp. The B100 is essentially a practice amp...

Thanks for your input. I appreciate all.

I'd like to have a better setup but don't have a lot of extra money at the moment. Is the B100 basically a practice amp because its a combo, or because of some other reason?

 

[Marko 1]

I see you can add an extension cab to that unit.

Adding a matching 15" would make a big difference.

 

[And I]

Thanks for your input. I appreciate all.

I'd like to have a better setup but don't have a lot of extra money at the moment. Is the B100 basically a practice amp because its a combo, or because of some other reason?

because it's only 100 watts. i guess it's not fair of me to call it a "practice amp", especially since as i read more of this thread i see you are not playing out with a band.

also i see this amp has no tweeter or horn, so expecting to have a full and balanced sound for both lows and highs is a lot to ask... the owner's manual doesn't have a frequency graph but i'll guess there isn't much going on in the treble range at all with this amp.

 

[pmcdn]

I see you can add an extension cab to that unit.

Adding a matching 15" would make a big difference.

Can I add an ext cab? See image of my amp back and confirm pls.

 

[Marko 1]

Can I add an ext cab? See image of my amp back and confirm pls.

I looked up (at least what I thought) was your amp and read this.

"The series extension speaker jack provides an output for an additional cabinet such as the Acoustic B115 or B410."

B100 100 W 1×15″ Bass Guitar Combo Amp - Acoustic Control Corp

Going back and looking at the manual, the back is different from yours.

My bad.

 

[pmcdn]

I looked up (at least what I thought) was your amp and read this.

"The series extension speaker jack provides an output for an additional cabinet such as the Acoustic B115 or B410."

B100 100 W 1×15″ Bass Guitar Combo Amp - Acoustic Control Corp

Going back and looking at the manual, the back is different from yours.

My bad.

No worries. I took some of the advice here and what I did was I still use garage band but I turn off everything but the compressor. The only reason I kept all this on is because I can't use my scarlet without it. Starting with just a bass amp, which sounds very boomy, tweak the knobs then I activated the garage band with only the compressor app and actually I haven't been hardly turning on the tech 21.
I'm not quite getting the grittier tone that I like, but things have improved. I still would like to get a little bit bigger cabinet later because I like the deep bass without the boom. I would like to be able to dial the base back even a little further, and still get a deeper tone. I'm thinking I'm gonna have to buy some kind of a modest head amp and speaker cabinet eventually.

 

[groove pump]

No worries. I took some of the advice here and what I did was I still use garage band but I turn off everything but the compressor. The only reason I kept all this on is because I can't use my scarlet without it. Starting with just a bass amp, which sounds very boomy, tweak the knobs then I activated the garage band with only the compressor app and actually I haven't been hardly turning on the tech 21.
I'm not quite getting the grittier tone that I like, but things have improved. I still would like to get a little bit bigger cabinet later because I like the deep bass without the boom. I would like to be able to dial the base back even a little further, and still get a deeper tone. I'm thinking I'm gonna have to buy some kind of a modest head amp and speaker cabinet eventually.

Several years ago when Daddy's Junky Music was around, I'd always duck into the shop near me to peek at what was coming and going. This was a chain that handled a lot of used gear - items could be transferred from one shop to another at the customer's request without needing to pay for shipping to get it into a local store. We just needed to wait for the better part of a week for their trucks to do their thing.

I've never been especially big on combos, but I spotted a Genz Benz M-Line 12" (single 12" speaker plus a tweeter) at Daddy's one day and took it home for about $80. This thing was built like a tank, it could stand upright or kick back like a monitor, and it sounded gi-normous while occupying a rather small footprint. I used it for home practice and for some monitoring jobs at different gigs. Still have it - currently loaned out to a pal who is dipping his toe in the bass world.

This combo story is only one example of useful and affordable gear that's out there for us as long as we have the time patience to look for it. If you're not gigging with a band and don't really need a bigger 'n louder rig for that sort of work, you have all sorts of options to sift through for playing at home.

In case you do go the route of a bass head and cab, I can say that I get everything I need to play my gigs with a 500 watt head and a pair of 2x10 cabs that I stack vertically for shows. When I practice at home, I use only one of my cabs and that works fine. My head is a GK MB 500 (I also have a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0), but something as simple and affordable as a GK 400 RB might work really well for you. My cabs don't even match, but they work fine together, both are premium items from the used world, and I found them only a couple years ago for only $200 each.

If you find a 2x10 that works for you now, you could potentially add a second one later if you need to make bigger sound in a gigging situation. But if you're only playing at home, that could also be much more than you need. If you find maybe an affordable combo that has noticeably better sound than your amp, that might keep you plenty happy for a while. Many of those options out there

 

[mambo4]

, running through a signal chain of Tech21 Sansamp YYZ, Scarlett 2nd Gen into Garageband, and finally to my Acoustic B100 1x15.

I am not in a band... I play on my own to recordings, etc.

This is not a live band FOH situation but a bedroom tone quest
The speaker seems to be the weak link, skip it
Use headphones into the Scarlet, get your tone from the Sans amp

Or adjust your expectations because bedroom tone is useless once you join a band.