Stupid IEM question

[Joe Nerve]

So... I'm happy with my new Westone IEMs. So much so, I'm considering using them with other bands I still sometimes play with.

It has however occurred to me that I know less than nothing whatsoever about how to do that? I'm brand new to IEMs, and all I know is that my band had me download a Presonus app on my iPad, and they hand me a little box every night with an antenna and a volume control.

What would I need to buy if I wanted to use this with other bands? I'm clueless? Can I just buy a receiver, and be able to hook into the soundboard at clubs? Do I need a whole entire setup that I'd have to lug around with me? Do I need to spend lots and lots of money?

Please educate me, and as usual, include numbers alongside this symbol $$$.

Thanks

 

[s0c9]

Joe,
this is one of those Pandora's box questions... Where to start.. ??? So MANY variables !!
You have the IEM's.. now you need your own portable solution.
2 approaches.. wired or wireless with the latter being the more expensive, but the simpler setup and less to lug around (IMHO).
I'm going to assume wireless based on "they hand me a little box every night with an antenna and a volume control."
For other bands you will [probably] want a stereo wireless IEM system (has xmitter and receiver).
You will need to get a signal to that wireless system transmitter - and THIS is where the problems (and variables) start.
If you get a FOH feed, where does that come from.. stage box?
Who controls the mix? You or FOH engineer?
Ideally, YOU want to be able to control your IEM mix, but doing so requires a digital console with wireless access - and a phone or tablet on your end - to get to your IEM mix...somewhere in the equation.
If FOH is controlling your IEM mix, you will be stuck with what they send you and you'll have little control over it.
Either way, you need to figure out how to get that IEM mix to your transmitter. You MIGHT be able to sit it up with the FOH board and hook it up there..??

This probably isn't real helpful, but hopefully it gives you an idea of the complexity of providing you one answer.. TOO many variables..

PS: My band gets around this whole issue by having an X32 Rack and 16-ch snake splitter housed with the same rack with the IEM transmitters - at every gig.. whether FOH is run by us or not.
The X32 is connected to a router than allows all of us to connected via wireless and mix our own IEM's. We all own our own IEM systems... Mine is a Senn G3 ($900+)

 

[DirtDog]

Joe - basically, you'll need something to sit between the board to act as a pre-amp/line of transmissions for your IEMs - as @s0c9 says, there's two ends of the spectrum -

1. Wireless ($$$) - the transmitter/receiver has the preamp built in. $$$ as in ~ $1000 on up. You would need both transmitter AND receiver.
2. Wired ($) - you'll need an (active) preamp between the board and your IEMs. Many options here, but the least expensive would be something like the Behringer P1 or Rolls PM50. $ as in ~ $100.

In either case, you should be getting a dedicated (or shared) AUX feed from the board from either an XLR or balanced 1/4" output, depending on the board. Could also be stereo or mono. You'd need a device that could accomodate these likelihoods.

 

[tshapiro]

You need a wireless IEM that can mix 2 feeds. 1 one is the monitor mix from the board and 1 is your own feed - this way you can be in control of your own mix which is important. You'll also need a splitter/and or preamp so you can send your bass to the board and to your in ear transmitter.

In the attached picture, I have posted an 'extreme' setup:
A rack mounted wireless transmitter
A rack mount mounted mixer
A rack mounted 8 channel splitter

In the attached picture, we were playing at a venue that runs the PA and can't send us IEM feeds. So, we split the signals before we send them to the house snake - we send 1 side of the split to the house and one to our digital mixer. Then, we provide our own IEM mixes to each band member. If I was doing the IEM feed just for me and not my whole band I wouldn't have needed the digital mixer and would only have been a few cords running in and out of things.

 

[bucephylus]

This OP poses a pretty challenging question.

Using a little mixer to mix your own signal into what you send yourself is a start; but you would still be susceptible to the feed you are getting having the stuff like snare and vocals properly mixed into it. Which, in general, may or may not happen.

IEM's are really great; but, they have two really dark sides. First, you are captive to whatever mix is delivered, and second, you tend to lose your sense of interactive dynamics with the rest of the band. The latter point results from tailoring your own mix, which always sounds perfect, but isn't what is going to FOH.

So, my conclusion has been that the success of the IEM approach, once you get past the gear, is massively dependent on the FOH person knowing the music and controlling the dynamics and mix. Trying to use the approach with sub optimal FOH engineering is likely to create frustration.

IME, using IEM's with great FOH engineering is marvelous. Not using IEM's with experienced players, who listen to the whole mix and adjust dynamics as part of the performance is marvelous. The stuff in between can be not all that great; and I don't think the IEM system by itself solves the issues.

 

[dlb1001]

I'm trying to learn about IEM's, too. A former band had a bare bones PA and could never get the monitor mix right, which led the mix always being too much of this or too little of that. But, the band leader was cheap and didn't want to spend any money so we never sounded as good as we could have been.
Anyway, I was at a local street fair and saw a great local band. All of the band members were using wireless IEM's, which I believe, helped them to get a great mix. It appeared that had a dedicated sound guy, who was running their IEM mix.

 

[Joe Nerve]

Thanks for the responses.

This seems far too complicated for a guy who grew up on, "If it's loud, it's good." I'm thinking I may just ixnay the idea. If things continue with my current band (which I'm expecting them to) I'll only be playing about half a dozen shows a year with other bands. Doesn't seem worth the investment, nor the hassle once I arrive at the venues we're playing.

A couple of points I'd like to add (with full disclosure that I think I'm even more confused now than when I started this thread )...

If I did decide to go this route, I would want full control of my mix via some sort of app like the one I'm currently using. A house mix would be out of the question, not the least bit interested. My hearing is compromised, and with a full band right now I only bleed in a little guitar, vocals, hihat and backing tracks. Then I adjust my bass accordingly. I do NOT want drums in my IEMs.

And... the venues I'd be playing would all be higher end clubs. BB Kings, Cutting Room (if yer familiar with those in NYC) and venues like that. Point being that they would all have decent boards and sound people. I imagine that changes my needs up a bit.

Please keep it coming. Though I think this is going to be a no-go, I still want to learn more about how this works, what's possible, what's not, etc.

 

[walterw]

all I know is that my band had me download a Presonus app on my iPad, and they hand me a little box every night with an antenna and a volume control.

What would I need to buy if I wanted to use this with other bands? I'm clueless? Can I just buy a receiver, and be able to hook into the soundboard at clubs?

you would need to buy that little box and what's on the other end, the transmitter. you can do so for less than a grand. a shure PSM300 is good for new non-suck entry level (spring for the better metal beltpack).

at that point yes, you could just hook it into whatever the PA is, as long as their board has a monitor aux just for you.

And... the venues I'd be playing would all be higher end clubs. BB Kings, Cutting Room (if yer familiar with those in NYC) and venues like that. Point being that they would all have decent boards and sound people. I imagine that changes my needs up a bit.

if those places are worth a damn they'll have nice digital boards with wireless control so you can still get whatever phone app goes with the mixer brand and work your own monitor mix.

even if their boards are more old-school they should still have enough monitor auxes to give you your own mix, so your IEMs are still usable; you'll just have to have enough time to futz around with the monitor engineer for a few minutes to get your mix right, "OK bass up some... a little less kick... uhh, a little more guitar...OK yeah that's good".

if you're playing 3rd on a 5-band punk rock bill then probably not, there wouldn't be time to hook you in or give you a proper monitor mix; that's when you stuff in the earplugs and hope for at least your own vocals in the wedge in front of you.

 

[Johnny Crab]

Working on the same thing now except either the board sends me a mix OR a small Behringer or single space line level mixer will be used, just got into IEM(MiPro909 > Fender A6).

 

[guy n. cognito]

If I did decide to go this route, I would want full control of my mix via some sort of app like the one I'm currently using. A house mix would be out of the question, not the least bit interested. My hearing is compromised, and with a full band right now I only bleed in a little guitar, vocals, hihat and backing tracks. Then I adjust my bass accordingly. I do NOT want drums in my IEMs.

In addition to the IEMs and wireless transmitter, the Venue would have to have a digital wireless-capable soundboard, a separate Aux just for you, and the inclination to do all of this for one member of a band. Highly unlikely....but who knows?

 

[NickFromNY]

Hey Joe- I have played a bunch of those rooms too (BB's mostly) and I can tell you that they do not have digital boards available where you can control your own monitor mix via an iphone app.. unless it has been changed recently. An investment in a good stand alone IEM system is not a bad idea if you can swing it. I have both a wired and wireless set up that I can go to that allows me to control the mix of my vocals, my bass and a house line in.

for a wired solution, I use the Rolls PM351.. about $79 and a great unit. allows for 3 inputs (mic, instrument and line), each with individual vol control. I put my vocals and bass through before going to FOH, then ask for a house monitor feed line in for everything else I need controlled by the house. run a 20 ft Planet Waves headphone extension cable to a belt loop on my pants, headphones down the back of my shirt and we are in business. You have to rely on the FOH engineer for the monitor mix of the rest of the band, but gives you control over you.

For a wireless solution, I just picked up a used Shure PSM200 set and a Shure P4M mixer. There are better sounding, and probably more reliable systems than my PSM200, but for the handfull of times I use wireless, it is more than OK. Same kind of set up... vocals and bass into channels on the P4m (I have 4 inputs), monitor mix from FOH for the rest of the band, all with individual vol controls. If you don't sing, you can by pass the P4M and go directly into the 2 channels of the PSM200 mixer and control volumes directly through that unit. My PSM200 just cost me $250 used in mint condition, and the P4M I got for nothing because the guy thought it was dead. Turned out to be a loose power supply. works fine now.

The options are there for any price range. Depends really on how technical you want to be.

 

[Geri O]

This is a tough call. I love, love, love using my IEMs. Being 59 years old, being a piano tuner, and being a live sound mixer on occasion, when I'm enticed out of retirement, it's important that I protect my hearing as much as possible.

In addition to a Sennheiser wireless IEM rig, I use a small 8-channel mixer when an aux from FOH isn't available. I use that and a few "balanced splits", a splitter cable with 1 female XLR and 2 male XLRs and used on a microphone to split the signal to two mic cables, one goes to FOH and the other goes to my little mixer. They can be bought at GC or easily made with minimum solder skills. I get a feed of some kind from FOH, then I split my bass, the kick drum, the snare and maybe the keys since keys seem to be forgotten by a lot of FOH mixers (Funny, I've never been on a gig like this when I DIDN'T hear guitars...)). This way, I can mix my own IEM signal to my ears. This solution works great, but takes a little time and a few extra mic cables to set up.

Of course, this solution works only when you have time for a soundcheck and you're the only band for the occasion. This isn't at all practical for festivals and "throw 'n go" playing situations. So perhaps you need to weigh how many gigs are regular situations and how many gigs are festival-style so you can determine if the investment in all of this is worth the trouble.

I'm in 4 groups and in the worship band at church. Three of the groups and the church situation are totally practical for the IEM rigs. There's always a digital mixer with my own aux. At church, I have an Aviom, the other 3 groups always use the same soundguy and I have my own aux and I can connect my iPad and run my own mix. Everything works great that. The 4th band is a female country music artist with two CDs, an EP, and good for her, a growing fan base. That band does a lot of festivals, so I have to advance the gigs with her and see if IEMs are practical under the circumstances. Usually it is, well, until the bandleader decided that I can't wear my IEMs on her gig, even though she does. Instead of making a scene or quitting the band (which I came very close to doing), I decided that on her gigs, I take my SVT 810 to make sure I hear the bass. And because everyone else's wedge is so loud, what the hell do I need a wedge for? I stay close to the amp and the drum riser and I do just fine (kind of an "I'll show them" attitude, I guess...). I have several recordings of the band before and after I used IEMs on the gig and dared him to pick out the ones I was using IEMs and not using a monitor. He finally admitted he just didn't like the way it looked. And I've left it at that for now. Lately, the artist noticed I wasn't using the IEMs and started asking questions. I've asked her to let it ride for the time being.

Doncha love band personality dynamics....

 

[Dbassmon]

Having control of your own mix is pretty key and in a closed loop, like working with a band that has a specific app and a wireless system, nothing beats that for a monitoring system. Here are some issues, a good wireless system is expensive, I use Sennheiser IEM 300 and it retails for a grand. Cheap wireless systems can be a nightmare. If that is too rich for your blood, you can get a Behringer wired IEM amp for $50 which works very well but you are tethered to it. Worst case scenario, you get on a gig with out a mix app, you still can control the overall volume of what you are hearing and leave one side of headset out or loose so you can hear the stage... the benefits are many. I love being able to shut out the stage and mix my own environment. When you dial it in right, its like listening to a record.