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Subs for bar band?

#21
First problem I see, I'm pretty sure that Yamaha is not rated for operation as less than 4ohms per channel...so by hanging three speakers off each power amp, and minimum you have a 2.66ohm load. You're not doing your internal power amps any good...and I'm a bit surprised that you haven't driven it into protect because of the load. You're already short at least one power amp to do this correctly.

Given what I know now...to keep it simple, here's what I'd do. Pick up a QSC GX5 or GX7. Ditch the audio centron mixer. Use the main outs on the Yamaha mixer to that amp (it has a built-in crossover) to power your mains/subs. You can then use the onboard amps (in mains/monitor mode) to give you two monitors with the main mix and two with a customizable mix (monitor side). This might help your drummer by only giving him what he really needs.

I couldn't find much on the other mixer, but it coudl probably be adapted similarly. The above option is probably easiest at this point, and probably along the lines of what was being suggested to you initially.
 
#22
Barisaxman said:
First problem I see, I'm pretty sure that Yamaha is not rated for operation as less than 4ohms per channel...so by hanging three speakers off each power amp, and minimum you have a 2.66ohm load. You're not doing your internal power amps any good...and I'm a bit surprised that you haven't driven it into protect because of the load. You're already short at least one power amp to do this correctly.

Given what I know now...to keep it simple, here's what I'd do. Pick up a QSC GX5 or GX7. Ditch the audio centron mixer. Use the main outs on the Yamaha mixer to that amp (it has a built-in crossover) to power your mains/subs. You can then use the onboard amps (in mains/monitor mode) to give you two monitors with the main mix and two with a customizable mix (monitor side). This might help your drummer by only giving him what he really needs.

I couldn't find much on the other mixer, but it coudl probably be adapted similarly. The above option is probably easiest at this point, and probably along the lines of what was being suggested to you initially.
Click to expand...




That sounds like a real good plan. Seeing that I am an idiot, could you possibly explain what you mean by use the main outs on the Yamaha to that amp? I know the main outs are on the front of the mixer, but if I go from there to the QSC to power the mains/ Subs, A) what cables do I use, speaker or instrument) and B) how do I go about keeping the mic feed from the kicks out of the mains?

I know these are dumbass questions and I apologize for you having to waste your time, but I really appreciate your help brother.
 
#23
A lot of power amps come with a crossover built into them specifically for sub/ top use. The crossover will be controlled either with a switch or DSP (digital programming). It will make one channel run everything below the crossover point (usually set somewhere between 60 and 100 hz) and the other channel everything above. I'm guessing this 'Peavey 2500' has a switch on the back that performs this function.

I agree with Barisaxman's suggestion. There are many other power amps that will do the job, but the method is money.
 
#24
Floyd Eye said:
That sounds like a real good plan. Seeing that I am an idiot, could you possibly explain what you mean by use the main outs on the Yamaha to that amp? I know the main outs are on the front of the mixer, but if I go from there to the QSC to power the mains/ Subs, A) what cables do I use, speaker or instrument) and B) how do I go about keeping the mic feed from the kicks out of the mains?

I know these are dumbass questions and I apologize for you having to waste your time, but I really appreciate your help brother.
Click to expand...

You wont separate the kick from the mix, the crossover in the power amp will do that job for you. All the frequencies of the kick that needs a sub will get routed to it, and all of the kick that needs a top will get routed to the top.

You should run an instrument cable from the Yamaha main out (not the speaker main out!!!) to the power amp. Then run a speaker cable from the lowpassed channel on the power amp to the subwoofer, and a speaker cable from the highpassed channel to the tops.

EDIT::: This method will require a passive subwoofer, not an active subwoofer.
 
#25
cheapbasslovin said:
A lot of power amps come with a crossover built into them specifically for sub/ top use. The crossover will be controlled either with a switch or DSP (digital programming). It will make one channel run everything below the crossover point (usually set somewhere between 60 and 100 hz) and the other channel everything above. I'm guessing this 'Peavey 2500' has a switch on the back that performs this function.

I agree with Barisaxman's suggestion. There are many other power amps that will do the job, but the method is money.
Click to expand...

So if I run cables from the main outs on the Yamaha into a power amp w/ built in crossover and then use the Yamaha for monitor mixes, do I plug all the mics into the Yamaha still? The crossover in the power amp will automatically direct the low frequencies to the channel with the subs?
 
#26
cheapbasslovin said:
You wont separate the kick from the mix, the crossover in the power amp will do that job for you. All the frequencies of the kick that needs a sub will get routed to it, and all of the kick that needs a top will get routed to the top.

You should run an instrument cable from the Yamaha main out (not the speaker main out!!!) to the power amp and then a speaker cable from each power amp channel to the sub and tops.

EDIT::: This method will require a passive subwoofer, not an active subwoofer.
Click to expand...


That's good because I already have a 2x15 passive cab and a 1x18 cab.
 
#27
Do not use instrument cables...you want 1/4" TS line level cables. They are not the same, and while they may work, are NOT designed to be interchangable. There is significant differences in the shielding of a line level cable and an instrument cable.
 
#31
Floyd Eye said:
Are line level cables the same as speaker cables?
Click to expand...
NO!!!!!

Speaker cables are made of heavier guage wire and are unshielded. Line level cables are generally as small as possible to keep capacitance down and are usually shielded. If it's not shielded properly it's just a crappy cable. It's news to me that there is a difference between line and instrument level cables.

I learned a bunch of this stuff at the billfitzmaurice.com forum. They will all be praising the BFM speakers like crazy (because they are pretty good speakers), but the information about PA setup is really useful and plentiful.
 
#32
cheapbasslovin said:
NO!!!!!

Speaker cables are made of heavier guage wire and are unshielded. Line level cables are generally as small as possible to keep capacitance down and are shielded. It's news to me that there is a difference between line and instrument level cables.
Click to expand...


Hmm. I am confused. I can find balanced ones and unbalanced ones.


Are they something like these?

Invalid Link Removed
 
#33
cheapbasslovin said:
NO!!!!!

Speaker cables are made of heavier guage wire and are unshielded. Line level cables are generally as small as possible to keep capacitance down and are usually shielded. If it's not shielded properly it's just a crappy cable. It's news to me that there is a difference between line and instrument level cables.
Click to expand...

My bad...technically there is not a difference between instrument and patch cables (line level). I was thinking balanced/unbalanced issues...need more coffeee :)
 
#36
Floyd Eye said:
Would this amp be alright?

Invalid Link Removed


Money is tight and I'd like to get as much as I can for under $500.
Click to expand...

That looks like a helluva deal. The subs will soak up a lot more power than the tops, so make sure that there is plenty of headroom on your amp. Also there will be some programming on that amp for the crossovers. If you feel competent to do that then it is perfect, if you want simple switch operation then it isn't for you. At first glance, the programming looks pretty simple.

Good luck.
 

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