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SVT CL kinda sounded... not great

Omega Monkey

Omega Monkey

Mar 8, 2015
2,438
2,667
#1
So, a project I'm in was auditioning a drummer today. We did it at his house, where he has a pretty nice little basement practice space. The place is reasonably decked out, and he said he had keys, bass rig, guitar amps, etc... He mentioned Hartke and Ampeg so I figured I'd make it work at least for a one-off So I just brought my bass (Yamaha BB passive 5 string).

Anyway, so he has the aforementioned SVT head, warming up in standby when I got there. It was on top of a matching 410 (410E?). I thought it would be great, but frankly I just couldn't get anything better than a workable tone, and I tried damn near every combination. Everything was just kind of boomy and muddy. I think I ended up with something like bass rolled off about 2 notches, upper mids rolled off about the same (position 4 I think), and treble flat, both ultra switches off, gain about 10 or 11 o clock. I had also tried various mid boosts and I started with everything flat and experimented a bit with the switches.

Yeah, just not as impressive as I was expecting. Now when I used my aluminum Kramer through an SVT and 8x10 when I went to buy something else from a guy, that was pretty killer, but this setup kind of let me down.

Now, there are several variables that could be at play, so I'm curious to see what people think.

8ohm cab. The thing had plenty of volume, but I've heard using a too high impedance cab with a tube amp can give kind of a "choked" sound, which seems like it could be a factor.

Sealed cab. I exclusively own ported cabs and that's theoretically what I prefer, so maybe sealed just isn't my thing.

My position to the cab. I was kind of "on top" of it to one side due to the setup of the room, so maybe I was just missing all the mids and treble that were coming out of the front of the cab and only getting the low mid boominess coming from the cab itself.

Strings not the freshest. The strings on the bass are over 3 months old, over all they're still pretty good but they don't have much zinginess left in them.

User error. Maybe I just didn't know how to dial the thing in for the best sound with that bass in that room. But I'm usually pretty good with that stuff. For reference, the bass was on the middle setting (both pickups) with tone either all the way up or rolled off just slightly. The thing sounds completely different through my setup (tube/SS hybrid head and ported tweeterless cabs).

Anyway, it looks like this guy will be in the band, so any suggestion on how to make this rig sound as amazing as it should would be great.
 
#2
I have a Heritage SVT paired with the matching 410HLF cab and it's absolutely ridiculous. I have read where the 410's can be boomy but this cab is not and it's at 4ohms so I'm not sure if that makes a difference? I can't remember reading any difference with the 8ohm version. This is my second SVT the first one I bought I had for less than a week it was paired with a Mesa 4x10 and sounded very similar to what you described I couldn't get a decent tone and I started doubting myself I remember saying "This is a SVT it can't be the amp?" and then I wondered what the fuss was all about?. The Ampeg sound isn't for everyone and it could be you just prefer a different sound? I would bring your head next time and see how it sounds with that cab.
 
#3
I've read countless statements that the older ampeg 410hlf cabs were terrible, just muddy and no clarity. I would bet my entire rig that that is the case. If you had a decent cab, you definitely would not say that the svt-cl sounded anything less than absolutely amazing.
 
#6
It wasn't in the corner, but it was about a foot from one of the longer walls in about the "middle" of that wall. So there could definitely be some standing wave funkiness going on or something like that. Room was probably 12x20.

Pushing probably isn't an option since we're trying to use the acoustic piano as much as possible (unless you just mean the gain, but a big grindy tone isn't really right for this group).

I mean, it wasn't the worst thing ever, I guess I was just expecting more. I'll take it in a practice space I can bike to.
 
#7
Ampeg had a run of cabs that were made out of OSB instead of plywood and used different speakers. I believe they were made from 2000 to 2006. They have been called "The dark cabs" by many. Their sound has often been described as playing with a blanket over the speakers. I have a couple of these cabs in the 8 10 version. With the 8 10's , I have found that pushing the mids and treble a bit I have been able to overcome any problems and it sounds pretty good that way. My son hooked my cab up a couple of weeks ago and only had it running on 4 10's at 8 ohms. It didn't sound too good running that way. I switched it back over to all 8 10's at 4 ohms and the sound improved. The HE cab is basically 1/2 of an 8 10e cab. Check the date for your cab. It's probably one of the dark era cabs. Push the mids and treble for the best sound. With it only being 4 10's at 8 ohms , you probably will not be able to get the full effect of the sound that Ampeg can provide with a 4 ohm cab.
 
#8
My "Ultra Lo" switch has three positions. The one that sounds good is the middle position. Then again, if the switch were in the far left position, you wouldn't be rolling off the Bass knob (on my amp).

Cabs make a HUGE difference. I am a HUGE fan of the SVT head (mine is a 1980), but I respectfully report I am not a fan of Ampeg cabs generally. I happen to be primarily using a Bergantino HT322.
 
#9
That head and that cab are a great combo. The cab doesn't have enough low extension for me, but that's purely taste. It is most certainly not known to be boomy and muddy.

The cab in question is an SVT-410E. It is sealed and has a horn. Totally different animal than the SVT-410HLF as has been mentioned.

Here's what I think is going on. You were not playing loud enough for the amp to sound it's best, you didn't have the gain structured to partially compensate for this and you were running into an 8 ohm cab.

Hopefully the amp was set to 4 ohms. Some people say it's no big deal. I have experience to the contrary. I recently sold a bass player pal a 4 ohm cab. He didn't know any better and had been running his CL into an 8 ohm cab (professional sound levels and often). He was on the verge of selling his amp because he was burning up output tubes regularly. I set him up with some USED tubes and he has had no problems since.

Here are some other possibilities:

the horn was off

wave cancellation in the room

you had the eq and or the ultra low/ultra high settings all wacky

there's something wrong with the cab

something wrong with the head
 
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#15
Chris 'Wighat' Jordan said:
That head and that cab are a great combo. The cab doesn't have enough low extension for me, but that's purely taste. It is most certainly not known to be boomy and muddy.

The cab in question is an SVT-410E. It is sealed and has a horn. Totally different animal than the SVT-410HLF as has been mentioned.

Here's what I think is going on. You were not playing loud enough for the amp to sound it's best, you didn't have the gain structured to partially compensate for this and you were running into an 8 ohm cab.
Click to expand...
Much respect to you, my friend, but I can't tell you how strongly I disagree with that. Sure, an SVT sounds awesome loud, but I regularly do gigs with an SVT and 810 where my volume's no louder than I can get with a B-15 and it always sounds superb, except when one thing happens...

sharkbait130 said:
Ampeg had a run of cabs that were made out of OSB instead of plywood and used different speakers. I believe they were made from 2000 to 2006. They have been called "The dark cabs" by many. Their sound has often been described as playing with a blanket over the speakers. I have a couple of these cabs in the 8 10 version. With the 8 10's , I have found that pushing the mids and treble a bit I have been able to overcome any problems and it sounds pretty good that way.
Click to expand...
...when I get one of those cabs. Sharky's right that you can fix them with EQ, but it never sounds as good to me as when I'm supplied an 810e or 410he from any other time period.
 
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#16
SVT @ 8ohms does not sound good in my opinion. Jimmy has said it, and now that I'm running that combo for a couple gigs I can agree. It's compressed and loses detail. Don't give up on ampeg from this experience. I bring My VR everywhere. Loud and quiet situations. I am running it through a 70s 8ohm v4 cab with original CTS speakers. New speakers are on the way that will help out a bit.
 
#17
i fought my boomy and muddy svt-cl for a long time. it sounds great now.
i swapped out v1 for a 12at7 (doesn't really solve the boominess) then i did something crazy....

ultra-lo IN then turned the bass knob all the way down to 0. brought the treble up to where i liked it (10:30) middle i kept in the 12:00 position same with the frequency switch.

then i slowly turned up the bass knob to where it filled the room but wasn't crazy. about 9:00. then if i need to cut through more i boost my mids, and sometimes use frequency position 2 (400hz?) instead of position 3 (800hz)
 
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#18
JimmyM said:
Much respect to you, my friend, but I can't tell you how strongly I disagree with that. Sure, an SVT sounds awesome loud, but I regularly do gigs with an SVT and 810 where my volume's no louder than I can get with a B-15 and it always sounds superb, except when one thing happens...
Click to expand...

WHAT!? SVT devotes disagree?! I'm not havin' it. :) I don't think it sounds bad, just not as good as it does running full bore. I don't care for pre amp distortion, so I don't crank the gain. That leaves one with a pretty clean tone for low volume. I don't know what the OP's expectations were. Heck I'm going to use my SVT with a three piece in a small club tonight. After I got onto diming the master (thank you, JimmyM), I am much happier with the tone of the SVT at lower volumes. I guess that's what I was getting at, maybe the OP had bad knob mojo vs. expectation.
 
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#20
Ok, mystery solved pretty much. Went for another practice at the place yesterday. Still having tone issues but got things a little closer to what I like. But what I discovered is that what I had thought was a 4x10, when I looked closer this time turned out to actually be a ported 1x18. I think last time I was basically right on top of it, so it was hard to see, but this time I was more to the side so I could see through the grill cloth, and also noticed the very slight slot port at the bottom (and that the thing is like 2 feet deep, jesus).

So if anyone has used that setup before and has any tonal starting points, let me know. My bass basically has elements of P, J, Ric, and MM (it's a passive Yamaha BB 5 string). This time I had the gain at about noon, bass rolled off slightly, mids cut pretty heavily on the first position, and treble at noon. Bass with both pickups full and tone full. So it was a little more controllable this time and in line with what I like. Maybe I just need to channel my inner classic rocker and embace the 18s boominess.
 

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