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SVT VR Preamp Upgrade

I've waited a few weeks to post this as to get over the honeymoon phase of these mod's and also do some tube rolling. I will try to keep it short but informative....

As many of you know I previously upgraded the OT in my VR with a Metroamp spec'ed Heyboer with fantastic results. The next phase of VR improvement seemed like a natural progression.. enhancing the input signal path. A few conversations with the fine folks at MetroAmps and my preamp board was on it's way to them. The exact mod consisted of 2 new paper and oil caps and a few NOS resistors in key locations. The work that was done was first class and I could easily tell I was dealing with true amplifier builders and not some weekender with a soldering iron. All my original components were also returned to me intact, if I choose to reverse out this mod (no way!)

Impressions: These components take about 40-50 hours to fully "burn in" according to George at Metro, but the initial "hit" I got when I first fired up the amp was apparent. Cleaner, thicker, more dimensional or tubiness was heard and felt (VR through 2 Berg HS210's with a 75 PBass.) I was running the VR tone controls flat and the Pbass tone pot/volume at the mid points. I did more of my testing using the volume and tone controls on the instrument to determine if the touted "sensitivity" was true. I was not disappointed! Just making small tone and volume adjustments took me on a journey.. Bos Scaggs Low Down(nailed the basstone) Some Chicago (Peter Catera was in the room!) Elvis Costello(well Bruce Thomas was there just limited by my poor skills) Hall and Oates (Maneater..cheezy song but great lines by the late/great TBone)

Using the tone controls on the VR was almost overwhelming. I love the VR for it's mid-range content and I now have more clarity/dimension in that area no matter the frequency or cut/boost position. Bass was more prevelant and I found myself running a bit of cut to take out some of the thunder. Treble content had a "sheen" to it that made me run for my 01 PBass with 62 re-issue PU's/round wounds (and a pick!) Upper register harmonics were just incredible! If I can place my finger (and ear) on any aspect that the stock VR pre was missing I would say this was it. Keep in mind these observations are based on about 20 hours on the components, so things have yet to really open up.

Tube rolling experiments were the most satisfying part of this modification. Ever had the experience inserting a tube in V1 and could not tell the differnce between a NOS and current mfg? With Metro's modifications, I could hear the difference between a Mullard and it thickness,a Telefunken's tightness, a GE's top end. I also discovered a few treasures in my tube collection that I had written off and was prepared to give away.

In all I believe this mod complement's the OT upgrade nicely. However, the preamp mod itself just made whatever was good about the VR front end better. The OT gave me more clean power and push, while the preamp mod gives more dimension/ sensitivity and helps it stay together/ tighter/ smoother even when overdriven. I could hear the"character" of each of my basses come through with more authority. I notedthat tube selection matters so much more than before and I've ordered a few more to continue this journey.

With the permission of MetroAmps I've included a few before/after photo's of the pre. George and Cris at MetroAmps are two of the most down to earth and intelligent people in the business. I would recommend a conversation with them if you have a Ampeg VR/CL and are looking for a more robust SVT experience.

Before Mod:

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After:

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I recall seeing your other thread on the OT upgrade - I think that was cool, and believe it may made some difference as you reported. It's usually noticeable when you are pushing it at louder volumes.

With the preamp mods, assuming he kept the stock values, I can see there being a subtle difference with the cap upgrades, especially early on in the circuit, but putting in carbon comp resistors is a step in the wrong direction - they are noisy and drift with temperatures. Not all vintage aspects should be replicated IMO. Not trying to rain on your parade - glad you dig it, and George is a great guy who does top notch work.
 
I recall seeing your other thread on the OT upgrade - I think that was cool, and believe it may made some difference as you reported. It's usually noticeable when you are pushing it at louder volumes.

With the preamp mods, assuming he kept the stock values, I can see there being a subtle difference with the cap upgrades, especially early on in the circuit, but putting in carbon comp resistors is a step in the wrong direction - they are noisy and drift with temperatures. Not all vintage aspects should be replicated IMO. Not trying to rain on your parade - glad you dig it, and George is a great guy who does top notch work.

John,

With much respect to a man who's built some nice cab's and a rightious preamp, what would be a better choice? George did mention that he used carbon comps very sparingly as he agrees that things can go in the wrong direction quickly. I have not noticed any additional noise but what are some of the possible effects of these guys drifting? Enought to be concerned about? Thanks and I very much appricate your input as a skilled builder/9 to5 engineer -professional.

Joe
 
Hi Joe,

I would just stick with metal film honestly. If there is some sonic characteristic that I'm after, I like to get it through the general design/voicing of the amp (which can be any number of things) using quality components with tight tolerances. I don't like the idea of putting in components that can introduce any kind of noise or other variability to gain the sonic "mojo". The guitar world gets really wrapped up in this kind of stuff.

As George said, if used sparingly, you shouldn't see much, or perhaps any, fluctuation in tone due to component drift. In general, when they drift, it can make the gain levels and voicing fluctuate depending on where they are in the circuit, and the cumulative effect can be pretty substantial, not to mention the wider tolerance which can stack up as well. My main concern in this case would be noise, but if you aren't having problems, that's great and don't worry about it.
 
I think that it is great that you are having some mods made just to see. There hasn't been an amp made that can't be tweaked to tailor the sound to a user's needs. Adding clarity to the tone stage is interesting. I've used both my '63 B-15 and '71 SVT as testbeds for reversable mods. It's an ongoing process and an interesting pursuit.

I understand the concerns of using carbon composition resistors and their associated noise. Especially since they used them in positions where 1% resistors were specified in the VR.

When I'm voicing an amp, I'll sometimes sit with a bag of the same valued baked carbon composition resistor and spend the day clipping them in and out of the circuit looking to optimize the tone. Folks debate this but, for me, it makes a difference. I see limited use of carbon comp resistors in the signal path of modern studio equipment. Some designers feel that it is a good way to go. The added noise isn't a concern, it is what is gained by using them. I assume that's what MetroAmps had in mind and they were trying to match what they heard in some vintage SVT's. Having said that, I've built some great sounding equipment using metal film all the way. The application dictates what works best in the signal path. With a loud amp like the SVT, a little bit of mojo can make a difference. Even if it adds some noise.
 
In one of the pics you can just make out the 0.1uF value. It looks like the cans are both the same size so I assume that they used kept the original values. Makes sense that they would swap out the coupling caps with paper in oil if they wanted to upgrade.

Hopefully Joe will confirm this.
 
hodgy said:
Did you change the values of the resistors, too, or just the type? I happen to have a preamp just sitting around that I'm gonna mess with. I truly love my job.

The values are the same. The NOS carbon comp resistors tend to round off the tone a bit and emphasize the harmonic and overtone qualities. Only a few were utilized so it wouldn't soften the "punch".
 
I've thought about picking up a CL or VR to mod - I have some great ideas. Anyone wanna send me one?
Gustav, I almost bought a Heritage CL this year until my tax return turned out to be pennies on the dollar from last year. And now it looks like they're getting interested in doing a 100w tube head, so doubltful I'll be picking up a new SVT at all, and I'm stuck with this raggedy old 69 for my 300w needs ;) But I would have likely considered letting you play on it if I had one, so the thought was there.

I wish there was more before/after sonic documentation of these mods.
 
JimmyM said:
Gustav, I almost bought a Heritage CL this year until my tax return turned out to be pennies on the dollar from last year. And now it looks like they're getting interested in doing a 100w tube head, so doubltful I'll be picking up a new SVT at all, and I'm stuck with this raggedy old 69 for my 300w needs ;) But I would have likely considered letting you play on it if I had one, so the thought was there.

I wish there was more before/after sonic documentation of these mods.

Thanks buddy ;)
 
Just carried the cap mod out in my VR using Jensens and it definitely sounds much clearer and bigger without losing that warmth. I haven't swapped any resistors yet, I'd like to get used to the amp one change at a time (and it's easy enough to take out the preamp for minor surgery as needed).

It's a really musical sounding amp now and sounds awesome when breaking up too. The caps are worth the investment (and there are of course much cheaper caps one could use such as the Russian paper in oils etc, or the usual run of poly caps like Mallory that the guitar pages rave on about).

I have a Heyboer OT on the way and will be installing it hopefully in a couple of weeks' time. But I can say that those wanting a simple and cheap tonal upgrade to the newer SVT models will do very well to chuck in some decent coupling caps. This could probably be said about many tube amps.