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SVT4 pro bi-amping an 8x10

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Lenny JG, Aug 3, 2019.


  1. Lenny JG

    Lenny JG

    Aug 3, 2019
    USA
    Hey all, I've finally came around to making an account here, and this is my first post!

    I've done a lot of searching but can't seem to find an answer to this question:

    Can I use the bi-amping feature of mu SVT4 pro to run both seperate 4x10s inside an ampeg 8x10 in order to use the crossover function on the SVT4pro?

    I am currently using the setup monobridged but have been curious about using the crossover on two cabs, I feel that since the 8x10 is actuallt 2 4x10 cabs in a single enclosure this might be kind of practical.

    Thanks in advance for any advice!
     
  2. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Personally, I think the crossover thing is useless unless you're doing a sub and a PA top. I see no reason to split the two halves of an identical cabinet that way. Maybe you could make a case for having two completely separate amps powering each half, but not so much for an amp with a single preamp and two power amps. On the other hand, yes, you COULD do it.
     
    ugly_bassplayer, Warpeg, Ggaa and 6 others like this.
  3. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011

    IMHO, you could and should do it just for the fun of it. But I believe you will find there is no practical benefit as @JimmyM has said.

    Here is the amp data you need to consider:
    - Mono-Bridged: 1600 watts rms @ 4 ohms(1200 watts continuous), 3% THD
    - Biamp: 2 x 350 watts rms @ 8 ohms (300 watts continuous), 3% THD

    You should also consider that eight speakers are a lot more efficient than four, due to mutual coupling. If you biamp, four of the speakers will cover the low frequencies, and four of the speakers will cover the high frequencies. Since they are not covering the same freqeuncy range, you do not get the benefit of mutual coupling. Some related ideas: If you double the speakers, but hold the total output power constant, you get +3dB. If you double the speakers and hold the voltage constant, the total power doubles and you get +6dB.

    Let's put all of these ideas together: By bridging the amp you more than quadruple the output power feeding the low end and also gain the increased efficiency from doubling the speakers. In other words, the rig will be able to play a lot louder if you run it it bridge mode.

    You may find that you actually like the sound of the rig biamped, but I suspect you will miss the headroom and punch of the full 810. If you have another bass cab, like a 210 with a tweeter, I would suggest experimenting biamping with the full 810 as the woofer and the 210 as the mid/hi cab.

    If you run the full 810, the impedance is 4 ohms, so the output power goes up a bit:
    2 x 625 watts rms @ 4 ohms (490 watts continuous), 3% THD

    If your other cab is 8 ohms, it would be fine to run one output at 4 ohms and the other 8 ohms.

    Injoy ;)! & welcome.
     
  4. Lenny JG

    Lenny JG

    Aug 3, 2019
    USA
    These answers are just what i needed, thanks y'all!

    Now I'm only thinking that the thing to do if i even wanna make this experiment worth my time is to try and throw pedals into seperate loops i.e. distortion on highs, compression on lows etc.
     
    drumvsbass, charlie monroe and Wasnex like this.
  5. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    That could be fun with dual mono as well.
     
  6. Lenny JG

    Lenny JG

    Aug 3, 2019
    USA
    What is the difference if i may ask you to elaborate?
     
  7. Rick James

    Rick James Inactive

    Feb 24, 2007
    New Jersey
    You bi-amp when you have dedicated low frequency and mid or high frequency drivers. You don't, they're all the same.
     
  8. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Now THAT may end up cool.
     
    Lenny JG likes this.
  9. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    If you poke around you will find plenty of post on using dual/parallel processing with distortion. The signal is split into two channels and you apply distortion to one channel and leave the other channel clean. Mix the channels to taste. The idea here is heavy distortion tends to wash out the low end, so mixing in the clean channel will restore the fat and focus. It can be useful to compress the clean side so it integrates with the distortion, since a side effect of distortion is compression. Another idea is to apply heavy distortion to one channel, and light OD and possibly some compression to the other.

    With a dual mono rig you can produce similar results, except you are blending your clean and distorted signals acoustically instead of electronically.

    Some call this biamping, but I prefer the term multi-amping. IMHO biamping involves using frequency dividing networks (crossovers), so each speaker covers a certain limited part of the frequency spectrum, instead of both speakers running a full range signal.

    Lot's of possibilities, try a stereo Chorus or Flanger.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
  10. lokikallas

    lokikallas Supporting Member

    Aug 15, 2010
    los angeles
    The 90s called, they want their bi-amping back!
    Can’t imagine it would sound better than full range.
    Are you going to use two mics and have the sound guy figure out how to blend them?
     
    packhowitzer and Wasnex like this.
  11. Great aswers given here, y'all. I'll add a personal aside: since less power is needed to reproduce the high frequency content when bi-amping, the idea of using two amps of equal power has always irked me.

    Also, OP, what you REALLY need for your dual mono set-up is another 810:bassist:
     
    Lenny JG likes this.
  12. Keger Jupit

    Keger Jupit Inactive

    May 10, 2018
    The Great PNW!!
    If you want to get a really good idea ^^^ of what this can sound like, grab a good set of headphones & give this a good crank! dUg (Pinnick, King's X) wasn't the first guy to try this, but...GOOD...GOD!! Live, his tone will melt your face!! He used to run a SVT/Marshall setup for lows/highs, respectively.

     
  13. Sure, but to get the most out of it, you might want to load the top with drivers that do higher frequency well, load the bottom with low frequency woofers and run both groups as channels with your biamp.
     
    Lenny JG likes this.
  14. Lenny JG

    Lenny JG

    Aug 3, 2019
    USA
    Aha now that's a good point

    Yes exactly why i want to do this is mainly to distort highs and compress lows, the other reason is just pure curiosity lol
     
    Wasnex likes this.
  15. Lenny JG

    Lenny JG

    Aug 3, 2019
    USA
    No im not because i go DI or i dont get micd, using an svt4pro and 8x10 micing isn't a necessity ime lol. Fun comment though

     
  16. Ampslut

    Ampslut

    May 15, 2017
    Bi-amping is intended to have the drivers operate in their optimum range by only sending them a fairly narrow frequency. For instance, if you had a 1x15 cab with a driver optimized for low frequencies then you would only send it frequencies from say 100 hz to 30 hz. Then you would need another cab like a 2x10 or 2x8 or 2x6 to send frequencies from 100hz on up. You would need a stereo amp like the ampeg and a crossover which the ampeg has built in. You would set the xover to 100 and send the low out to 1x15 and the high out to the 2x10. You would choose the xover point depending on the high side cabinet. That way both cabinets are operating in their optimum range. You would need to balance the volume of each speaker but that can be done pretty easily by ear. Now, you have a 8x10 cab that can be used stereo. Sending the low side to 4x10's and the high side to 4x10's won't really accomplish much.
     
    Lenny JG and Wasnex like this.
  17. Lenny JG

    Lenny JG

    Aug 3, 2019
    USA
    Fair; maybe for what I'm wanting to accomplish, I might be better with just using a frequency splitter so I don't have to worry about the xover
     
  18. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    What the difference between a frequency splitter and a crossover?
     
  19. Lenny JG

    Lenny JG

    Aug 3, 2019
    USA
    It's basically in your signal chain and allows you to adjust lo and hi pass as two seperate signals before sending to your amp. With something like Tyler the freq. splitter it even.allows you to use a seperate effects loop for ea. of those two signals seperately.
     
  20. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011

    Basically you split the signal into two frequency bands, process the two frequency bands with effects, and then combine the two frequency bands back into one channel before sending it to your amp.
     
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