Double Bass Switching between Eb & D?

[MadelineP]

Hi all,

I just purchased a Shen classic to upgrade from the beat up old Strunal Dvorak I've learnt to play on for the past four years. However, my new bass has a D neck while the Dvorak has an Eb neck. I'm not particularly worried about changing over to the new bass but is it a bad idea to keep the Dvorak and still play it as I would constantly be switching between D & Eb? Or should I sell the Dvorak and buy another beater bass that has a D neck to stay consistent?

Why do I want to keep the Dvorak? If I do an outdoor gig that's not protected, or I go somewhere where I'm not happy with taking the nice bass, I'd like to have a backup that I can take where, if something goes wrong, it's not the end of the world.

I'm not looking to start a thread about D vs Eb necks - there are several here and they're very informative. I'm asking specifically about the effects of constantly switching between the two.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

 

[LouisF]

I don't think it's a problem. I have one of each

 

[Don Hergert]

So admittedly I've lived most of my life in the outskirts of Double Bassland, but in all the years I've been around double basses I've never seen an explanation of the reasons for the differences between a D-neck double bass and an Eb-neck double bass...

I think I understand about solo tuning, is that the reason for this neck difference? If not, would someone be able to explain this for me, or perhaps point me to a discussion of this?

And, I'm sure this represents a difference in how music is read and performed for each bass neck-type... Any hints on that concept also?

Thanks in advance...

 

[MadelineP]

So admittedly I've lived most of my life in the outskirts of Double Bassland, but in all the years I've been around double basses I've never seen an explanation of the reasons for the differences between a D-neck double bass and an Eb-neck double bass...

I think I understand about solo tuning, is that the reason for this neck difference? If not, would someone be able to explain this for me, or perhaps point me to a discussion of this?

And, I'm sure this represents a difference in how music is read and performed for each bass neck-type... Any hints on that concept also?

Thanks in advance...

There's all sorts of historical reasons for the difference between the two necks. A quick search of TB/Google for "D vs Eb neck" or "Eb vs D neck" will give you lots of reading. It has nothing to do with solo tuning. There's very little difference in between the two; there's no definitive real reason to go with on over another. Some people prefer the Eb because it allows them access to the higher register more easily - but it's just one semitone so..... A lot of people (especially in North America) argue for D neck because most NA basses are D necks so it's more easily transferrable. There's no difference between the two for reading music and probably a tiny difference in technique but negligible at best, in the overall scheme of things. In the end, it's a matter of what you get used to and the only thing that should be less of a consideration - when it comes to choosing a bass - is what colour the bass is; in other words, it nearly doesn't matter. I was asking my question specifically for regularly switching between the two. Hope this helped.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

I've had both and prefer the Eb for access to F on the G string. It took me a while to get used to the Eb neck after playing D neck for 30 years. I put a sticker at the G harmonic to help while I was getting oriented. After about a year I took it off and was good to go for either bass.

 

[JLubinsky-Mast]

I've played Eb necks my whole life. My American Standard had a plethora of poor neck repairs that had it sitting somewhere in between Eb and D.
This last year I sold my old German bass, bought a King Mortone, and fixed up my American Standard. Living in the world of D necks now.

I just try to do vomit exercises whenever I can, focusing on that area from D to Ab on the G string to really get a feel for it. So far so good.

 

[Don Hergert]

Thanks to all, interesting stuff...

So I'm taking it that the distance from nut to bridge on a Eb neck is shorter (by one semitone) than a D neck...

Do people ever just tune their Eb necks to EADG if they want immediate gratification and can put up with lower tension? Sort of like using solo strings tuned to EADG?

Edit: Actually I'm now thinking that it's the other way around, an Eb neck renders a D to Eb, meaning that the neck is one semitone longer... Is that right?

...Or do I misunderstand the concepts involved?

 

[Eric Hochberg]

You misunderstand. The string lengths can be the same, or not depending on design. Where the body meets the neck, Where the bridge sits on the body, and the thickness of the heel, determines the stop pitch.

 

[Mgaisbacher]

you do seem to be misunderstanding. The strings are still tuned the same , and the string lengths can be the same with either Eb or D necks. The Eb or D refers to what note is where the heel breaks on the G string. If you were to slide your thumb down the back of neck until it is stopped by the heel, what ever note is directly above your thumb determines if it is a Eb or D neck. It has nothing to do with string length or tuning. It does however change the relationship of the notes by a semitone across the bass from this point up the fingerboard (across the whole bass but this is where you would start to notice it physically)

Also as Eric said, the bridge position and thickness of the heel also plays a role in this. Also someone with even more understanding of it could probably explain it more clearly.

Thanks to all, interesting stuff...

So I'm taking it that the distance from nut to bridge on a Eb neck is shorter (by one semitone) than a D neck...

Do people ever just tune their Eb necks to EADG if they want immediate gratification and can put up with lower tension? Sort of like using solo strings tuned to EADG?

Edit: Actually I'm now thinking that it's the other way around, an Eb neck renders a D to Eb, meaning that the neck is one semitone longer... Is that right?

...Or do I misunderstand the concepts involved?

 

[Don Hergert]

Ahhh, that makes great sense, thank you very much...

So if I now do understand this, where this really makes a difference is with playing techniques like thumb position work, as the heel joint location pretty well determines where thumb positions begin.

Do I finally got it???

Thanks again!!!

 

[SteIIa]

Not really. This makes a difference where people use the neck heel as a physical location tool, mostly - ie. quickly locating D or Eb (depending on neck). Thumb position would be in the same spot, given the same string length.

 

[Don Hergert]

Understood... So thumb position is a bad example... I like your "physical location tool" idea, for whatever techniques.

Thanks again all, for the explanations... Honestly, in the bluegrass, old jazz and roots music circles I've been around, I've never been aware of anyone using an Eb neck, although people who did so may just not have said anything about it. But it's fascinating to me that they do exist and why they do.

Edit: FWIW, it looks like my Alcoa has a D neck, and naturally it is welded into place... Due to their factory construction I suspect all Alcoa basses have D necks, but I don't know that for sure.

 

[GretschWretch]

Appears OP is getting answers for everything except the question she asked. I cannot speak from experience, but only hypothetically. I think any problems with switching would be minimal, if they exist at all. Electric bassists switch among instruments all the time and make the adjustment just fine. I think once the brain triggers that "I'm on the Eb neck now," muscle memory kicks in and all is well. You just have to be conscious at first about which note is in the curve of the heel.

 

[Ludwig]

I play a bass with Eb neck regularly about once a week at my club, my own double bass and EUB have a D neck. I don't have much problems switching.
For cello, there always seems to be the equivalent of a Eb neck (on D string: index finger plays A, middle finger on top of thumb plays B).
With an Eb neck the whole note is played with the index finger, while half note is played with middle finger over the thumb in normal hand position for neck. With a D neck, the normal hand position for has to be changed earlier to move the index finger over the thumb. A reason to prefer D neck for bass could be the slightly larger body length giving a somewhat larger body.

 

[brianrost]

I have one of each and also play 30" and 34" BGs (used to also play 35" and 25" BGs). My ply Juzek is an Eb neck and I didn't even know it at first because I never played up there doing only folk and blues. I'm now quite used to it and can switch between the two DBs and any of my BGs without any problems.

 

[gnypp45]

I would expect that Eb necks are common on basses with a very long (by today's standards) string length.

 

[B String]

I would expect that Eb necks are common on basses with a very long (by today's standards) string length.

My bass has an Eb neck. Its right about 41". My friend has a 40.75" on his bass with an Eb neck.

 

[SteIIa]

@gnypp45, Eb or D necks are caused by how the neck heel and body are made, rather than string length.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

After all these years, I still don’t know what kind of neck my basses are (one is a copy of the other). I do know that I use the physical landmarks a lot.

 

[Neil Pye]

My 1820 ish German flatback has a 43.5" string length and an Eb neck. I regularly borrow a Bedingfield modern 4 string which has a D neck and 40.75 string length. It's not a problem after the first 5 minutes. I just have to remember to tune with my ears not my eyes or hands. In my opinion, it's a very good thing to play different basses when you can. If you do it regularly you won't worry about it