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Double Bass Switching between Eb & D?

#22
Sam Dingle said:
Only one way to find out put your thumb at the spot the neck meets the body. Play the note your 1st finger is on. The answer will set you free...
Click to expand...

That's just the thing, though. Depending on how you hold your hand, the answer would be different. On my bass, directly across from my thumb when it hits the heel, the note is a D. However, since I normally don't shape my hand that way, it's actually easier to find the Eb than the D. I just checked, and if I were deaf and just placed my thumb at the heel and placed my index finger where it would usually go, I land on the quarter tone between D and Eb every time.

I may be crazy, or have faulty technique, etc.... but without the ear being in charge of everything I still find the notion of D or Eb necks kind of spurious. Sure, the landmark gets you in the ballpark, but even the slightest variance of string length at the bridge, or the slightest variance of technique regarding hand position would render the question moot for in any real sense that involves exact intonation. I agree with @Neil Pye that after a few minutes of range finding, a good player should be able to find the notes they are looking for both aurally and kinesthetically.
 
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#23
Chris Fitzgerald said:
That's just the thing, though. Depending on how you hold your hand, the answer would be different. On my bass, directly across from my thumb when it hits the heel, the note is a D. However, since I normally don't shape my hand that way, it's actually easier to find the Eb than the D. I just checked, and if I were deaf and just placed my thumb at the heel and placed my index finger where it would usually go, I land on the quarter tone between D and Eb every time.

I may be crazy, or have faulty technique, etc.... but without the ear being in charge of everything I still find the notion of D or Eb necks kind of spurious. Sure, the landmark gets you in the ballpark, but even the slightest variance of string length at the bridge, or the slightest variance of technique regarding hand position would render the question moot for in any real sense that involves exact intonation. I agree with @Neil Pye that after a few minutes of range finding, a good player should be able to find the notes they are looking for both aurally and kinesthetically.
Click to expand...
So that's the thing, the bass builder doesn't usually construct the bass so that you get an A=440 D or Eb pitch with your first finger where your thumb hits the body - it's out of tune.
What IS important, is WHEN you need to switch to thumb position. Can you play an Eb without switching? An E? An F? IME, THAT's the landmark we're looking for, the highest pitched note we can comfortably - reliably - play with our pinky.
Once we know which pitch that is, we know how to transition into and out of thumb position.
 
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#24
Tom Lane said:
the highest pitched note we can comfortably - reliably - play with our pinky.
Click to expand...
I have no idea if I have a "D"or "Eb" neck - I do know that the highest pitched note I can play on the G string (with my pinky, without anticipating or entering Thumb Position), is an F#. This is the most important tactile reference for me. I've always wondered if this was by design or just (lucky) happenstance?
Thanks.
 
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#25
Above the position, where the thumb hits the heel (Simandl 4th position), usually the pinkie is not longer in use, the ring finger is used instead alone. Many people switch to thumb position at the octave harmonic, but the thumb can be used at lower positions,too.
 
#26
Ludwig said:
Above the position, where the thumb hits the heel (Simandl 4th position), usually the pinkie is not longer in use, the ring finger is used instead alone.
Click to expand...
My edition of Simandl shows the pinkie in use through the "Intermediate Position between the V. and VI. Position" (the pinkie plays F# on the G string.)
"The VI Position" is the first position introducing and using the ring finger (3) in place of the pinkie (4).
Thanks.
 
#28
Don Kasper said:
My edition of Simandl shows the pinkie in use through the "Intermediate Position between the V. and VI. Position" (the pinkie plays F# on the G string.)
"The VI Position" is the first position introducing and using the ring finger (3) in place of the pinkie (4).
Thanks.
Click to expand...

I just got a bass I like very much. The shoulders looked very sloped and less wide than many. I only had a short time to play it and I didn't realize that (with my stupid short fingers) I cant really get to the F# with my fourth finger. I'm good with the third finger, but its driving me nuts getting used to the new Eb neck AND the whole F# thing. Almost makes me miss my old bass.
 
#29
B String said:
I just got a bass I like very much. The shoulders looked very sloped and less wide than many. I only had a short time to play it and I didn't realize that (with my stupid short fingers) I cant really get to the F# with my fourth finger. I'm good with the third finger, but its driving me nuts getting used to the new Eb neck AND the whole F# thing. Almost makes me miss my old bass.
Click to expand...
This would drive me NUTZ!
I've been playing the same bass for over 30 yrs.
Old Dog/New Trickz.
Good Luck!
 
#31
Sam Dingle said:
Only one way to find out put your thumb at the spot the neck meets the body. Play the note your 1st finger is on. The answer will set you free...
Click to expand...
Not at all, I'm afraid. This is a faulty definition that ALWAYS leads to confusion. The very same bass may have "Eb neck" for one player and a "D neck" for another player depending on their handshape, technique, blabla.

Do this instead: Put your thumb at the spot where the neck meets the body and whatever note is OPPOSITE your thumb is the the answer.
 
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#32
gnypp45 said:
Not at all, I'm afraid. This is a faulty definition that ALWAYS leads to confusion. The very same bass may have "Eb neck" for one player and a "D neck" for another player depending on their handshape, technique, blabla.

Do this instead: Put your thumb at the spot where the neck meets the body and whatever note is OPPOSITE your thumb is the the answer.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm not sure what the confusion is. This has nothing to do with your technique or your hand shape or anything. What @gnypp45 is exactly what how luthiers look at a DBs neck. Whatever note is opposite the thumb when the thumb is placed in the neck heel - regardless of whether you play that note with first or second finger - is what kind of neck you have.
 
#33
Chris Fitzgerald said:
That's just the thing, though. Depending on how you hold your hand, the answer would be different. On my bass, directly across from my thumb when it hits the heel, the note is a D. However, since I normally don't shape my hand that way, it's actually easier to find the Eb than the D.
Click to expand...
I would say that you have a D neck, since that note is directly across your thumb. This is an objective measurement that can be performed by anyone. As long as you have a thumb you get the same result.

What you write is one of many examples of the problems with the "1st finger"-method that I just commented above: your bass appears as an Eb bass to yourself, it would probably be a D bass to me, and conceivably even be a Db bass to some players with a different hand shape. So clearly not an objective measurement at all, and rather useless when describing a bass neck to others.
 
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