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Switching from Rounds to Flats Advice
- Thread starter allboutbass
- Start date
Been using GHS Precision flats since the 1980s. When new, they have quite a bit of zzzing for flats. After a year or five, they settle down to a sweet round middy thump. Which is perfect, especially on P bass. Just put a new set on my fretless P and am waiting for the brights to calm down. You may like them when new. It will take longer for them to get thuddy than you would ever dream of keeping a set of rounds
D
Personally I find the Pure Vintage 63 pickup far too dark sounding for thumpy old school flats like LaBella DTF, GHS Precision Flats, Pyramid Gold or similar. The PV63 is roundwounds only for me and even then I find it somewhat lacking in clarity. 12.0k DCR is higher than a typical vintage '63 P-bass pickup and way into muddy overwound territory IMO.
If I HAD to use flats with the PV63 I would go with more modern sounding flats with a bit of upper mid presence. Personally I hate the stiff feeling and metallic/clanky sounding D'Addario Chromes but based on your preference for rather heavy gauge D'Addario roundwounds they might be worth considering here.
My personal first choice (by quite some distance) would be Thomastik Jazz flats but they would probably be WAY to light gauge for you if you're comfortable with 50-105 roundwounds.
If I HAD to use flats with the PV63 I would go with more modern sounding flats with a bit of upper mid presence. Personally I hate the stiff feeling and metallic/clanky sounding D'Addario Chromes but based on your preference for rather heavy gauge D'Addario roundwounds they might be worth considering here.
My personal first choice (by quite some distance) would be Thomastik Jazz flats but they would probably be WAY to light gauge for you if you're comfortable with 50-105 roundwounds.
I'd say the 9050Ls, they were developed to keep the growl. Someone who frequents the TB halls had been part of their development, I can't remember who.
If "growl" is what you want out of your flats, try Ernie Ball Cobalt Flats (aka Slinky Flatwound) or Fender 9050s.
La Bella and GHS are more for the traditional "thump and thud".
drumvsbass
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- Aug 20, 2011
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Well ... if they sound right I can get used to its tension.
Thanks for the insight on the PV63 pickup response.
I've been playing flats for most of my life - rounds early on, a few times used Pressure Wounds. My observations - at either end of the spectrum are Chromes and TI flats. I really don't care for the Chromes because of the high tension, and they sound too bright for my tastes. TI flats are very nice strings, but the very low tension only worked for me on a very limited application, fretless bass. I didn't like the feel of them at all on my P bass. My favorite flats are Pyramids, super smooth and great sounding once broken in (which can take a while). Like TI flats, they are quite expensive but last forever. If I were just looking to give flats a try, I'd probably go with LaBella 760FL strings. They're not very expensive, not high tension, and will give you a chance to see how you like flats. If you do decide to give flats a try, be patient - play the hell out of them for a month before you see if they work for you. Also flats shine best when played in a group setting. Pyramids don't sound that great when you are just playing by yourself, but in a group setting they really are perfect.
Good luck!
Good luck!
PV 63 pup + stock N4 noiseless J pup .
The thick low mid overwound p pup along with clean sounding J pup.
I suggest Dunlop Flatwound 40-100. She has both vintage-modern DNA to match you pickup voice.
Hopehelp
The thick low mid overwound p pup along with clean sounding J pup.
I suggest Dunlop Flatwound 40-100. She has both vintage-modern DNA to match you pickup voice.
Hopehelp
Two weeks ago I went from rounds to D’Addario chrome flats on my Gibson SG Std. Exactly the 100% turn around I was looking for.
My '78 P bass has the rash marks of an indecisive string swapper. Flats have my heart.
La Bella 760FL: everyone seems to love them. I don't like the G string. Otherwise, they are beautiful flats. The tension is still a bit stiff, but not bad.
La Bella 760FS: I have a set on the way. Something about heavier La Bella's feel wonderful under my plucking hand. The fretting hand may adjust to these better than the following sets....
La Bella 760FM: Heavy, but noticeably better intonation than the Jamerson set below. Seem a bit more mid-scooped, and La Bella DTF's are already a smiley-faced.
La Bella 760M: NOTHING thumps like these big boys, but that's all they do. Forget slap. E will never intonate. Better have a big beefy neck.
La Bella LTF: Beautiful tone, still a little loose for me. The D string gave me all kinds of wonkiness...not sure why.
GHS M3050: Too woody, lacking character. Did not like the speaking part of the string winding around E tuner post on a top-loaded P bass, what I would imagine is the most common intended installation
GHS 3120: Installed on an old Kramer lummy-neck, lots of woody, better fundamental than the M3050's, still not over-the-top impressive, both sets do sound broken-in from the beginning
Dunlop 45-105 and 40-100: I liked the heavier set a little more, seems to be a compromise string, maybe with a little more time I would have connected with these, but no distinctive personality
Rotosound SM77: Currently on my P bass, VERY articulate and balanced feel-wise, these are excellent roundwound substitutes for players who don't like the rough feel, hard to imagine getting an old-school R&B sound out of these, but a good TI substitute for those who like the tone but not the loose feel, it will be hard to convince myself not to let these age and see what happens and just keep the new La Bella's on standby for later as I think the Rotos will age nicely and soften up a bit, I THINK YOU WOULD LIKE THIS SPECIFIC GAUGE BASED UPON YOUR DESCRIPTION, the best slap flat I've tried thus far
Rotosound RS77LD: Formerly on my P bass, VERY stiff but nice with low action, same tonal sentiments as SM77's, lower volume output than other flats, feel a little grubbier than light set
D'Addario ECB81S: A bit stiff, REALLY mid-scooped, too smooth and too "blah" for my tastes, nothing special tonally
TI Jazz: What a strange set, way too loose feeling for both hands, sometimes sound beautiful, other times too middy, I've tried an aged set and couldn't detect enough of a difference tonally to convince me entirely other than I think the feel of these stiffens just a little bit with age but not sure why
Ernie Ball 2831: Obviously stiff with a bigger gauge, got these to downtune, the only thing I remember about them was that the D string broke in dramatic fashion, pretty boring tonally
Fender 9050M: BEAUTIFUL sounding on my Jazz bass, heavy but feel lighter than Roto RS77LD's, the E and G broke on me but I bought them used and I believe it was my installation error, a great value, not as great on my P but still a sweet, singing mid-range
Fender 9050L: A solid lock on my Jazz, not quite as great tonally as the 9050M set but SO much more comfortable to play, these will stay where they are for a long time
Many folks seem to think of GHS Pressurewounds as a compromise string for flats. I do not agree. They are fantastic strings with a higher output than flats, but I think they tend toward the rounds end of the spectrum. This isn't a bad thing, but I've decided for me they are not a flats substitute. They are rather stiff.
La Bella 760FL: everyone seems to love them. I don't like the G string. Otherwise, they are beautiful flats. The tension is still a bit stiff, but not bad.
La Bella 760FS: I have a set on the way. Something about heavier La Bella's feel wonderful under my plucking hand. The fretting hand may adjust to these better than the following sets....
La Bella 760FM: Heavy, but noticeably better intonation than the Jamerson set below. Seem a bit more mid-scooped, and La Bella DTF's are already a smiley-faced.
La Bella 760M: NOTHING thumps like these big boys, but that's all they do. Forget slap. E will never intonate. Better have a big beefy neck.
La Bella LTF: Beautiful tone, still a little loose for me. The D string gave me all kinds of wonkiness...not sure why.
GHS M3050: Too woody, lacking character. Did not like the speaking part of the string winding around E tuner post on a top-loaded P bass, what I would imagine is the most common intended installation
GHS 3120: Installed on an old Kramer lummy-neck, lots of woody, better fundamental than the M3050's, still not over-the-top impressive, both sets do sound broken-in from the beginning
Dunlop 45-105 and 40-100: I liked the heavier set a little more, seems to be a compromise string, maybe with a little more time I would have connected with these, but no distinctive personality
Rotosound SM77: Currently on my P bass, VERY articulate and balanced feel-wise, these are excellent roundwound substitutes for players who don't like the rough feel, hard to imagine getting an old-school R&B sound out of these, but a good TI substitute for those who like the tone but not the loose feel, it will be hard to convince myself not to let these age and see what happens and just keep the new La Bella's on standby for later as I think the Rotos will age nicely and soften up a bit, I THINK YOU WOULD LIKE THIS SPECIFIC GAUGE BASED UPON YOUR DESCRIPTION, the best slap flat I've tried thus far
Rotosound RS77LD: Formerly on my P bass, VERY stiff but nice with low action, same tonal sentiments as SM77's, lower volume output than other flats, feel a little grubbier than light set
D'Addario ECB81S: A bit stiff, REALLY mid-scooped, too smooth and too "blah" for my tastes, nothing special tonally
TI Jazz: What a strange set, way too loose feeling for both hands, sometimes sound beautiful, other times too middy, I've tried an aged set and couldn't detect enough of a difference tonally to convince me entirely other than I think the feel of these stiffens just a little bit with age but not sure why
Ernie Ball 2831: Obviously stiff with a bigger gauge, got these to downtune, the only thing I remember about them was that the D string broke in dramatic fashion, pretty boring tonally
Fender 9050M: BEAUTIFUL sounding on my Jazz bass, heavy but feel lighter than Roto RS77LD's, the E and G broke on me but I bought them used and I believe it was my installation error, a great value, not as great on my P but still a sweet, singing mid-range
Fender 9050L: A solid lock on my Jazz, not quite as great tonally as the 9050M set but SO much more comfortable to play, these will stay where they are for a long time
Many folks seem to think of GHS Pressurewounds as a compromise string for flats. I do not agree. They are fantastic strings with a higher output than flats, but I think they tend toward the rounds end of the spectrum. This isn't a bad thing, but I've decided for me they are not a flats substitute. They are rather stiff.
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I can attest to this, not with numbers (which I believe someone else posted), but with experience. I have been (for years) using 50-105 Chromes on my MIA P and they are totally bridge cables, man. They put out some mean thump, but definitely not comparable to the same gauge in your typical rounds. After playing the "lighter" (45-100) Chromes on my Mustang for a while, I realized I am putting myself through unnecessary pain (and truss rod tension) on my P and I just ordered up the 45-100s for that one too.
Not to hijack, but I am going through a mini string evolution and I found this interesting. I am a long time Chrome user, and as posted above, on my P basses I have been using 50-105. Partly because I also play upright, and bigger strings make the switch back and forth between electric and upright feel more natural. However, I am realizing that lately I've been gravitating to my electrics with lighter (relatively) gauge strings (e.g. Chromes 45-100 or TI flats 43-106 but low tension). Given this description, do you think I would prefer the SM77s or RS77LD? Would be fun to try some Rotos - when I played rounds that was my string.
I just recently installed the light set, so it will take some time to know for sure, but the standard 45-105 set is fatiguing but manageable to play. For comparison, they are more comfortable than the two heavier sets of La Bella's I referenced. I tend towards old-school R&B/Blues, but I think with some age, the zing on these will temper a bit and leave a sweeter mid-range. I like that they are more versatile than La Bella's, and I suspect that even if they don't sound the same in practice solo, they will cut through more prominently in a mix. Our church guitarist just complimented my tone and articulation this past Sunday with the heavier Rotos I have, so it seemed to make a difference to another set of ears. The light set feels very balanced, and indeed Rotosound's published numbers on its website reflect this for the SM77's. I can also get by with a little lower action.
But there is lots of zing on a new set. It eq's out, but can be annoying. I really do hope these mature well.
I found both Chromes and Sadowsky Blue Label flats to be on the brighter side and to work well with an active P/J bass for a smooth yet modern sound. Personally, if I were you I’d start with the 45-100 Chromes set as a reference point, get an idea of what you like and/or don’t like about them, and report back. You will get better feedback that way.
Also - save your used flats if you think you may want to try them again - they can be restrung.
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I assume you haven't played the 50-105 chromes? Curious to know how those compare to the RS77LDs.
No, just the 45-100’s. I liked the smooth feel, but not much else about them. I like sweet mids.
Probably one of the main divides is around perceived tension. Some prefer the TI flats (and similar strings) where the stiffness/tension is relatively lower. On the other end of the spectrum, some prefer strings like the Jamerson flats (or Roto 77s) that have a stiffer/higher tension feeling. I think that the GHS Precision flats are kind of in the middle. Personally, I prefer the Jamersons (the Rotos are great too, but a little bright), but they are not for everyone.
