SWR workingman’s 12 limiter

[oldsauceman]

Recently bought an SWR working man’s 12 combo amp. It’s been great so far, reminding me of my old SWR 350 head I had back in the days…

I put it through a long rehearsal yesterday and the limiter came on quite a few times. Wondering if this is cause for concern or not…part of me says it’s fine, seeing it come on just means it’s doing its job, but want to inquire the hive mind.

A week ago, I played it with an extra extension cab and it did fine, no limiter activation. Of course this wasn’t nearly as loud - just a drummer and me, but I’m wondering if having the extra cab to share the workload helped?

Any and all advice/ reassurance is welcome!

 

[agedhorse]

I checked my docs, the limiter activates as the power amp gets close to clipping. With a single cabinet, the amp puts out about 1/2 rated power so when you add an (8 ohm only) extension cabinet, you get an additional 3dB of volume due to the increased power (to full rated power) as well as ~3dB due to the additional speaker's contribution.

If you find you are limiting a lot, you don't have enough rig for the gig.

 

[eniac]

Recently bought an SWR working man’s 12 combo amp. It’s been great so far, reminding me of my old SWR 350 head I had back in the days…

I put it through a long rehearsal yesterday and the limiter came on quite a few times. Wondering if this is cause for concern or not…part of me says it’s fine, seeing it come on just means it’s doing its job, but want to inquire the hive mind.

A week ago, I played it with an extra extension cab and it did fine, no limiter activation. Of course this wasn’t nearly as loud - just a drummer and me, but I’m wondering if having the extra cab to share the workload helped?

Any and all advice/ reassurance is welcome!

The two situations can't be compared (validly) because more than one variable was changed. Bring both cabs to a full rehearsal (repeat situation 1) and you'll have a better idea.

 

[oldsauceman]

I checked my docs, the limiter activates as the power amp gets close to clipping. With a single cabinet, the amp puts out about 1/2 rated power so when you add an (8 ohm only) extension cabinet, you get an additional 3dB of volume due to the increased power (to full rated power) as well as ~3dB due to the additional speaker's contribution.

If you find you are limiting a lot, you don't have enough rig for the gig.

Hmm yeah it’s an 80s cover band…2 guitars, keyboards, drums….so yes maybe some more power is needed. Kind of bummed though because I wasn’t diming every setting.

Another thing, for the gig I’ll have a monitor and will be plugged into the PA….so maybe I’ll be alright. Was not DI into pa for the rehearsal. Maybe even tilt the SWR up to hear it a little better. Thanks!!!!

 

[agedhorse]

Diming settings doesn't matter, that's not how a reasonable player uses an amp.

 

[oldsauceman]

Diming settings doesn't matter, that's not how a reasonable player uses an amp.

Yeah I know that- I was just saying it as context - meaning there was no obvious reason for it to happen

 

[agedhorse]

Yeah I know that- I was just saying it as context - meaning there was no obvious reason for it to happen

Not enough rig for the gig is an obvious reason, or certainly may be.

 

[loukash]

The only time my Workingman's 12 came to its literal limits was about 7 years ago when I applied for a gig in a local hard rock cover band. In their rehearsal room, the drums were miked via the PA. I had no chance to even hear myself after tilting the combo straight into my face, until we've plugged it into the PA as well. And yeah, of course I bypassed the limiter by pulling the Effects Blend knob…
As a side note, the drummer's drumming was abysmal while he desperately attempted to follow his click track.

Luckily for me, my ears and my peace of mind, I didn't get the gig.

 

[CaptainLeisure]

I played with a fairly loud cover band years ago, and the Workingman's 12 wasn't quite loud enough. It was close though: We did a couple of gigs with a Workingman's 15, and it handled the volume with no problem. As mentioned, you can pull a little more power out of the W12 by adding a second speaker cabinet.

 

[agedhorse]

The only time my Workingman's 12 came to its literal limits was about 7 years ago when I applied for a gig in a local hard rock cover band. In their rehearsal room, the drums were miked via the PA. I had no chance to even hear myself after tilting the combo straight into my face, until we've plugged it into the PA as well. And yeah, of course I bypassed the limiter by pulling the Effects Blend knob…

The limiter can't be bypassed (according to the factory docs), the pull switch bypasses the effects blend stage.

I played with a fairly loud cover band years ago, and the Workingman's 12 wasn't quite loud enough. It was close though: We did a couple of gigs with a Workingman's 15, and it handled the volume with no problem. As mentioned, you can pull a little more power out of the W12 by adding a second speaker cabinet.

It's not just a little more power, it's the addition of the second radiating source that's also the equivalent to doubling the amp's power.In total, you get +3dB from doubling the power and +3dB from doubling the number of speakers.

 

[loukash]

The limiter can't be bypassed (according to the factory docs)

It does on my model. Bought it around 2007 here in Europe.

From the PDF "WORKINGMAN’S BASS COMBOS OWNER’S MANUAL • Part # 0066558000 • 08/03":

LIMITER DEFEAT SWITCH
Pulling out the Effects Blend knob until a click is felt deactivates the Internal limiter circuit. Pushing the control back in, activates the circuit.

Which is exactly what it does.
(I do sound engineering partially for a living, so I know how the difference is supposed to sound.)

But I'm aware there there existed a slightly different Workingman's model which may have had different specs.

 

[agedhorse]

I went back and looked at the factory docs and there's an error on Workingman 12 the schematic that mislabels the pull switch as an effects blend switch when in fact it shuts off the positive peak detector in the limiter's control circuit. This mistake is on the 1999 schematic for the Workingman 12 but is correct on the Workingman 15 schematic around the same time. It was made to be non-defeatable in 2004 until the WorkingPro came out.

The limiter defeat function was brought back with the WorkingPro series, but correctly labeled limiter defeat, and it applied to the 12 and 15 but the 10's limiter is not defeatable, whereas the original Workingman 10 didn't have a limiter at all (as of 2003).

It's been ~15 years since I looked at these models, I left Fender (SWR's last owner) in 2013 and I had done some analysis of SWR's technical IP with the hopes of reinventing SWR while still employed there. Ended up being wishful thinking as the brand had become somewhat irrelevant by that time (in spite of the AmpLite and HeadLite models).

Therefore, the complete answer is "it depends'..

 

[oldsauceman]

I went back and looked at the factory docs and there's an error on Workingman 12 the schematic that mislabels the pull switch as an effects blend switch when in fact it shuts off the positive peak detector in the limiter's control circuit. This mistake is on the 1999 schematic for the Workingman 12 but is correct on the Workingman 15 schematic around the same time. It was made to be non-defeatable in 2004 until the WorkingPro came out.

The limiter defeat function was brought back with the WorkingPro series, but correctly labeled limiter defeat, and it applied to the 12 and 15 but the 10's limiter is not defeatable, whereas the original Workingman 10 didn't have a limiter at all (as of 2003).

It's been ~15 years since I looked at these models, I left Fender (SWR's last owner) in 2013 and I had done some analysis of SWR's technical IP with the hopes of reinventing SWR while still employed there. Ended up being wishful thinking as the brand had become somewhat irrelevant by that time (in spite of the AmpLite and HeadLite models).

Therefore, the complete answer is "it depends'..

Wow that’s a bummer…wish they’d have let you done it! Thanks for trying at least.

 

[oldsauceman]

It does on my model. Bought it around 2007 here in Europe.
View attachment 7309394
From the PDF "WORKINGMAN’S BASS COMBOS OWNER’S MANUAL • Part # 0066558000 • 08/03":

Which is exactly what it does.
(I do sound engineering partially for a living, so I know how the difference is supposed to sound.)

But I'm aware there there existed a slightly different Workingman's model which may have had different specs.

So, speaking of the FX Blend knob, here’s another weird thing: I use an Ibanez UE-405 multi fx rack and when I had it thru the FX patch, if I turned the blend knob all the way wet, the signal dropped significantly- say, by 30%. Sounded fine with the blend knob anywhere from 10 to 2 o’clock though. WEIRD. And yes limiter defeat if you pull out the FX blend knob.


Also a local shop has a workingman 15 for sale for $200….tempted to beef up and run a cab off it to get the full wattage. The wife won’t be psyched but she can relax